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Mountain Ocarinas Forum => General Ocarina Discussion => Topic started by: ubizmo on January 15, 2015, 02:16:48 am



Title: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 15, 2015, 02:16:48 am
I was going to post this in the other thread, about Why is this Forum So Dead, but decided it deserved a fresh new thread with a less morose title.

The "ProRange" is not, in fact, vaporware. I know because I played a prototype daily for about six weeks before sending it back to Karl, not long before Christmas. I'm posting this now, with Karl's permission, because the PR is very close to ready for release. The reason why I'm posting this instead of Karl is twofold. One part is that I'm excited and want to talk about it and get some buzz going. But Karl's even more excited, so that's not really a good reason. The other reason--the important one--is that Karl doesn't want to be distracted from this important final phase of development. So he said I could go ahead and talk about it!

I'm using the abbreviation PR, and I put "ProRange" in quotation marks, because that will not be the final name of this new instrument. After much discussion and reflection, a different name has been chosen, but Karl will unveil that when the PR is actually launched. So don't get too comfortable with "PR"!

On to the good stuff. The PR prototype that I had is the result of years of experimentation by Karl. A number of other designs preceded it. For the last year or so, I was involved only as a kind of sounding board for ideas, via phone or Skype. I still haven't met Karl in person! It was a tremendous privilege for me to be able to serve as test pilot for the prototype of what is, in fact, the final design.

I can't post pictures or sound samples (I don't actually have any sound samples), but I can give you a pretty good idea of what to expect. In general size and shape, the PR is about the size of an iPhone 5, but somewhat thicker. One of Karl's top design priorities was for the instrument to be compact enough to be carried in a pocket or in a holster that isn't cumbersome. With this design, he succeeded. Although the PR is overall thicker than the iPhone, it is tapered in thickness, narrower at the bottom (distal) end. The shape, viewed from above, is rectangular with rounded corners (more rounded than the iPhone's) and the mouthpiece is slightly tapered inward. The general shape could be described as sleek.

There are ten tone holes; eight on top and two on the bottom. The player's hands do not shift from one set of holes to another. The range is two full chromatic octaves, from C5 to C7. There is "chamber overlap" of a minor third, from B to D. That is, the notes B, C, C#, and D can be played on either chamber. This is an incredibly important and useful feature. It takes just a little while to get used to it, and then you find it indispensable.

The top (2nd octave) chamber has a tuning hole at the bottom end. This creates what's sometimes called "chamber balance", which means the breath pressure needed for high C on the bottom chamber is about the same as what's needed for the same note, which is near the bottom of the range of the top chamber. Without that tuning hole, changing chambers would require a sharp breath cut. On the PR, the transition is very smooth. You can play all the way to high C without any feeling of "pushing" or strain. At the low end, the bottom C "bell note" is strong and clear. At no point is there any need for the "acute bend", as needed on some other ocarinas.

The voicing holes are on the bottom. The overall volume of the PR is a bit less than that of the existing MOs. It's not a huge difference, but enough to be noticed. The tone is different from the existing MOs too. It's notoriously hard to describe instrument sounds, but in my view the PR is a bit less "reedy" than the MOs we're used to. Some people described that reedy quality as "buzz"; in any case, there's less of it in the PR, giving it a slightly softer, more flutelike tone. At least, that's how I'd describe it.

Without going into too much technical detail, there were quite a lot of problems to be solved in getting to this design. We think of the ocarina as a simple instrument, but the PR is very much an instrument of the 21st century. The tolerances required to make the instrument work are incredibly fine. Even the material used had to be carefully considered and tested. This is not an instrument that could be made in clay, or even most ordinary woods. Add to that one of Karl's top priorities, which was to develop an instrument rugged enough to be carried around anywhere, and the range of possible materials was narrowed even further. Many ordinary woods, for example, would swell or shrink enough in varying weather conditions to throw the tuning off, given the fine tolerances already mentioned.

In addition, the patented tone hole design places constraints on the positioning of the tone holes, and their positioning in turn affects their size. You can't just put them anywhere and expect them to work. The way in which the chambers have to be configured affects the flow of air, which in turn affects the size of tone holes, tuning, timbre, and everything else. I only grasp the most superficial details of all this, but I learned enough to gain an appreciation of the challenges involved.

Musically, I consider the PR a breakthrough instrument. It's an ocarina, but I think it will have an appeal that extends beyond the ocarina community. I found that I was able to play the usual things that I play, with a lot of added flourishes, thanks to the extra range; but I could also play things that I couldn't touch on the existing MOs, such as Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" and "Wachet Auf." And of course, for those of us here in the US, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is no problem. The very first melody I wanted to try was, of all things, "When You Wish Upon a Star". This song, if played to include the full Jiminy Cricket falsetto at the end, uses the entire range of the instrument, and sounds just lovely.

Karl and I share a love of Irish dance music, and in fact I've been doing a lot of whistle playing in sessions for the past few years (especially low whistle). The ocarina sounds great with this music, but most of it needs more range than any single ocarina, and more efficient playability than other doubles I've tried. But I found myself playing quite a lot of in on the PR prototype. I can't say it was all easy, because a lot of this music just isn't easy; it's fast and complicated. But as I got the hang of the PR I was able to play more and more of it.

So there you are, something new to talk about.

Before anyone asks, no I don't know when it will be released, nor what the price will be. I know it's very close to ready.  I'm going to take the liberty of suggesting that if you're interested and want to contact Karl about the PR, do so by email rather than by phone, for the same reason that I'm posting this instead of Karl. Karl loves to talk about his work, and it's really easy for him to lose several hours in a day doing so. But things are at the stage now where he just needs to focus on sorting out the final details.

If you have questions, post them here and I'll try to answer the ones I can answer. Some will no doubt have to wait until the launch, but that shouldn't be too long now.

This is going to be so cool!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Auroch on January 15, 2015, 02:32:42 am
Definitely a great and thorough update! Thanks for taking the time to put this together, Ubi.
I'm that much more stoked for the new model! I need to re-read the post to help it all sink in haha:)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 15, 2015, 07:17:14 am
I am thrilled to hear that it is about to move out of the prototype stage into the reality production stage.  i know that it will have to be great because he has worked on it for so long.  I just hope that I can own one myself one of these days. The limited range has been a big hold up to me being able to play the Ocarina in public.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on January 15, 2015, 08:23:33 am
Thanks for all the info ... sounds fascinating :)

For myself, I had to Google iPhone 5 just to find out just how big (or small) it might be  :-[


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 15, 2015, 04:36:56 pm
i thought I was the only one that didn't know how big an Iphoney was.  But I just recently retired my flip phone in favor of a slide phone and I miss the flip.   

Anyway  It would have been nice to hear a sound sample or two of the not a Porange.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 15, 2015, 06:17:55 pm
i thought I was the only one that didn't know how big an Iphoney was.  But I just recently retired my flip phone in favor of a slide phone and I miss the flip.   

Anyway  It would have been nice to hear a sound sample or two of the not a Porange.

Well, it's a bit shorter than the current MO C, about twice as wide, and almost as thick near the mouthpiece end, but tapering in thickness toward the tail end. That's from memory, since I don't have a prototype anymore. There could still be minor adjustments in dimensions in the final release, but I don't think it'll be far from what I've just described.

Yes, I should've thought to make a sound sample for posterity. At the time, I didn't expect to be writing a post like this, so it didn't occur to me to make one.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 15, 2015, 11:17:40 pm
I thought of a few other details you may find interesting.

On the PR, D2 in the bottom octave will be played by lifting the left thumb, as it is on many other ocarinas. This change was required by other design factors. Keeping it on the right thumb, as in currents MOs simply wasn't going to work.

The right thumb hole is quite small, and is used only for getting C#1, although I found it useful for Eb1 as well. So, except for those low notes, you won't have to bother with it. This means that there is no note that requires you to take both thumbs off the instrument.

Let me ask this: What are some pieces of music that you'd like to play on a full two-octave instrument? Is there anything in particular that you've wanted to play, but couldn't?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: TicTocOc on January 16, 2015, 04:42:34 pm
UBIZMO!! Thank you so much for this thread/update on the PR and all the info you provided! You have truly made my YEAR!!

I have only recently purchased my Mountain Poly set, and I already use it exclusively (like you  ;D, I really look up to you)

I have been researching double ocarinas for some time trying to find the perfect one because I thought the PR wasn't happening anymore. But now my search has ended with what I truly wanted, the PR!

To answer your question, I was in an Traditional Irish band for a couple years and have a ton of sheet music that needs the 2 octave range. Also there are a handful of hymns and contemporary Christian music that would benefit from the extended range. I would love to play in church one day.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 16, 2015, 05:54:09 pm
I have been researching double ocarinas for some time trying to find the perfect one because I thought the PR wasn't happening anymore. But now my search has ended with what I truly wanted, the PR!

To answer your question, I was in an Traditional Irish band for a couple years and have a ton of sheet music that needs the 2 octave range. Also there are a handful of hymns and contemporary Christian music that would benefit from the extended range. I would love to play in church one day.

I'll say this: Once I had the prototype, I found I was playing it to the exclusion of all else, including whistles. I didn't try it in an Irish session, but I did try to play a lot of session music on it, on my own. As you know, some of that music involves a lot of very fast jumping from high to low notes, and those tunes were challenging on the PR. But a lot of standards worked just fine, such as "The Rights of Man," a hugely popular slip jig. And when I play "The Rights of Man", I usually like to play another slip jig, "The Plains of Boyle," first. That one works well too.

Another favorite of mine on the whistle is "King of the Pipers." This is a pretty demanding tune on the whistle, and it's no picnic on the PR either, but I was playing it.

A lot of hymns work well enough on the regular MO, but I still found that I preferred playing them on the PR. I really like its stability in the hand.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: TicTocOc on January 16, 2015, 09:55:48 pm
Apologies if I missed it, but what key is the PR in? And what material us it made of?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: TicTocOc on January 16, 2015, 10:52:36 pm
I reread the original post. I see the key now, c5 to c7.  Still didn't see the "official" material its made of though.


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 16, 2015, 11:41:03 pm
Apologies if I missed it, but what key is the PR in? And what material us it made of?
The key is C. There may be other keys later, but this is an "alto C".

The material is...I'm going to sidestep that question. The prototype I had is probably not the material that the PR will be released in. There's a long and somewhat strange story behind that, and I'll let Karl tell it when it's time.

Suffice it to say that this will be the first ocarina made of this material. Sorry to be cryptic, but this is one of the things Karl is fine-tuning now. And since I haven't had a prototype of this material in my hands, I can't really comment anyway.

As I mentioned in my first post, the PR design requires tolerances to thousandths of an inch. The material is a big piece of the puzzle.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Auroch on January 17, 2015, 12:05:25 am
To me it's more interesting not knowing the material at this point in time. I'm sure it'll eventually be expressed in the thread as the information becomes publicly available or at the very latest - upon the release of the new model though that's great too!

I view the (lack of) sound-samples in a similar sense. I'd much rather find out how it sounds when I'm holding my own. I'm sure some will prefer hearing what it sounds like before purchasing and that's totally cool though I have no doubts that they will sound beautiful so for me it really amps up the excitement leaving certain things until the moment I open the package.

From the start I suspected that it would not be done in polycarbonate. I didn't really give much thought to hardwood or warmstone - those options felt sort of up in the air. Hearing that it's going to be the first use of "this material" gets me that much more excited!


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on January 17, 2015, 12:31:52 am
Those of us, like myself, who don't actually build things, tend to overlook the problems posed by finding the right material for a job. The new material that Karl is working with is something that I haven't, to my knowledge, ever handled at all, so I'm also excited to try it out.

But I do wish I'd recorded a few sound samples.

Another song that requires a notoriously extended range is "Old Man River." It has the same span as the "Star-Spangled Banner." Sounds nice on the PR.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: TicTocOc on January 17, 2015, 03:00:10 am
Thanks Ubizmo for your response.  I'm ok with not knowing the material, but I am still very curious nonetheless.

Auroch, your point has made me reconsider wanting to know. And I agree, I want my first time hearing to be when I get it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on January 17, 2015, 04:52:52 pm
All this emphasis on tolerances to thousandths of an inch and mystical materials makes me think this might be a "fused deposition modelling" project ... that's 3D printing, to save you having to Google it ;)

If so, full marks for embracing a new technology ... check out http://www.coroflot.com/andrewmorson/muse for a few insights!

Do bear in mind, using this technology is not an "easy way out". The design still has to have been finalised in a more conventional manner, hence the l-o-o-o-n-g development, but there may be opportunity to minimalize production costs by effectively producing to order rather than having to finance a batch then hoping they sell :)

There's no insider information here, just me pondering a concept and adding to the "something to talk about" ... ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Auroch on January 17, 2015, 05:43:26 pm
That's an interesting route that hadn't even crossed my mind. There would definitely be advantages with going in that direction and it would be interesting to see how they turn out.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 18, 2015, 02:58:04 am
From what I understand about 3d printing (which isn't much) slopes and such generally come out looking more like stair step.  I will admit it has been a couple of years since I heard that so the technology may have evolved since then.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on January 18, 2015, 08:43:25 am
Quote
...... the technology may have evolved since then.

Somewhat !!

Check out http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/29/3d-printed-concert-flute-rapidly-prototypes-sound-video/ for starters.



Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on January 18, 2015, 12:56:50 pm
It's an interesting idea, and perhaps one day ocarinas will be made that way, but the PR isn't one of them.


Title: Re:
Post by: Auroch on January 18, 2015, 03:51:45 pm
It's an interesting idea, and perhaps one day ocarinas will be made that way, but the PR isn't one of them.

The plot thickens!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Pat Anderson on January 19, 2015, 02:44:56 am
I trust I am on the waiting list for the first production "batch" - Patty wanted to talk about the cost, and I said, for this one, I really don't care, I am getting it!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Auroch on January 19, 2015, 03:08:39 am
I trust I am on the waiting list for the first production "batch" - Patty wanted to talk about the cost, and I said, for this one, I really don't care, I am getting it!

With the time and effort that has gone into this model so far (which I can only fathom a fraction of), I'd say it will be completely worth it...whatever the cost - which I'm sure will still be reasonable all things considered. We know the quality is going to be incredible, the durability - superb! Plus it's a completely new design. I'm really looking forward to this.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Traeak on January 19, 2015, 07:51:04 pm
Definitely sounds interesting.

Bakelite could be interesting but would scratch too easily.
I suspect one of the problems with all of this has to do with making molds if that applies.

I'm curious, did he use any of the 3d printing technologies to prototype this instrument?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 20, 2015, 03:11:25 pm
No 3D printing, and no molds. These ocarinas will not, at least in the short-term, involve manufactured ("mass-produced") parts, as do the current MOs. In the longer term, I guess anything's possible.

Concerning the low B... The PR will not have it, and the reason is to keep the size of the PR as compact as possible. To my surprise, adding just that note involves adding not just a little bit of extra volume, but quite a fair amount. The PR is a good deal more compact than 12-hole ocarinas, and this is why. It's also why the MO C that we currently have doesn't have a dedicated low B tone hole. I know that compactness is not a huge priority for everyone, but for Karl it definitely is. He has established a brand identity for instruments that are durable and compact enough to be carried everywhere, without being a bulky inconvenience. He intends to continue to work within those constraints, as much as possible.

There is, of course, a dedicated "low B" tone hole, R4, for the second chamber, but that note is B2, not B1. That's part of the chamber overlap design.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Auroch on January 21, 2015, 06:13:39 pm
If the exclusion of the low B means keeping the design small and compact then I'm all for it. It was a huge part of the deciding factor when I bought my poly G and C and is still a quality of the MOs that I value immensely. I'm glad Karl is sticking to the original aim. A new model probably wouldn't feel much like a Mountain Ocarina if it was a dreadnought by comparison to the others.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on January 22, 2015, 07:54:52 pm
Intuitively, I'd expect that low B to add only a small bump in size to the ocarina, but in actuality it's a significant bump, as Karl explained to me -- especially if you want a strong sounding note there.

Anyway, I'm not bothered by it. I'm much more interested in the chamber redundancy, with "low" B available on the upper chamber. That makes a HUGE difference in playability, by reducing the number of required chamber switches around the octave break.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Traeak on January 22, 2015, 11:38:45 pm
Interesting about the low 'B'.  Also unfortunate since one of the advantages of ocarinas come from having subholes.  A nice advantage over tin whistles and recorders.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they're using a CNC machine to get these going.  That's probably still the most effective way to produce custom items, especially if you know how to program one properly.  It just requires some solid stock material of appropriate size.

How about a granite ocarina?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 23, 2015, 08:28:54 pm
Interesting about the low 'B'.  Also unfortunate since one of the advantages of ocarinas come from having subholes.  A nice advantage over tin whistles and recorders.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they're using a CNC machine to get these going.  That's probably still the most effective way to produce custom items, especially if you know how to program one properly.  It just requires some solid stock material of appropriate size.

How about a granite ocarina?

I actually have a couple of tin whistles with low C, which I almost never use.

I did miss the low B tone hole on the MO C for a while, but I found that eventually I was able to produce a low B, or lower, by tipping the ocarina up and shading the window with my upper lip, and to do so with little or no breath cut. This got easy enough that I ceased to think of it as a workaround.

On the PR, the voicing window is on the bottom, so obviously I can't use the same method. I did experiment on the prototype with a breath cut for low B. It worked, but of course the note you get is weaker. It remains to be seen whether the release model will work better for getting low B. As a general thing, I found the pitch on the PR prototype to be more stable than it is on the MO C, and I think that has a lot to do with the design of the chambers--very different in shape from the current MO.

These sorts of things are the last details that Karl is working out now.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: TicTocOc on January 29, 2015, 01:33:39 am
Knowing that the PR us coming to fruition makes it that much harder to wait. I almost prefer not knowing.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on January 29, 2015, 02:07:27 pm
Knowing that the PR us coming to fruition makes it that much harder to wait. I almost prefer not knowing.

I considered this before starting this thread. There's no doubt about it; it's frustrating to wait. But knowing that the final version is so near, I thought it was justifiable to talk about it, and Karl agreed.

I want to stress that the prototype that I had was fully functional, and even aesthetically very sharp. It was in no sense a "rough draft", except for a few minor details. If Karl were to release the PR in that exact form, a lot of people would be very pleased, I believe. But his standards are very high, and there were a couple of details he wanted to try to improve.

It's been very quiet around here. It'll be less quiet when this thing lands.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Auroch on January 29, 2015, 03:17:20 pm
As I haven't been waiting nearly as long as some, I won't say that I'm dying from the wait or anything. For me it's been about two years of looking forward to the PR and even though that's a decent enough chunk of time, I haven't noticed myself to feel anguished by the wait. Part of it could be due to the PR leaving the forefront of my thoughts and lingering in the background for the last while. Another part of it could also be due to how I have no idea what the waiting list is like at this point...and have no clue as to my position on it (which is fine with me). Perhaps it's a defence-mechanism of mine where I hear that the PR is almost ready though my brain says Ya!...and you could easily be in with batch 7 haha. I'm also not sure how large batches are, how long each batch will take to produce or the amount of time that will pass in between batches though in any event, I don't mind waiting longer if need be. It will be incredible when I obtain mine! Really looking forward to getting out to the woods with a new MO:)



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 06, 2015, 02:15:51 pm
Some of the final details that Karl is working on are: The overall size of the PR. For a lot of reasons, Karl wants it to be as compact as possible, to fit in with the Mountain Ocarina ethos of an instrument durable and small enough to take with you everywhere.

He's also tweaking the size of a couple of the tone holes, to keep them manageable for people with smaller hands and fingers.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Fiddle-A-Little on February 16, 2015, 06:47:31 pm
Sounds Exciting !  I agree size is critical a little bigger than the "c" is ok.  Fingering is critical for transitional purposes (ie. like going from one woodwin to another).  I do like the the WarmStone, its tone and the colors offered.  It would be nice to have matching G.C,PR. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 17, 2015, 06:42:08 am
I agree that size is always a consideration with most any musical instrument. You have to make it small enough for people with small hands but big enough so someone with larger hands (like me).  I am sure it is even more of a balancing act for the Ocarina.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on February 21, 2015, 02:51:02 am
The PR is really very compact, especially when compared to most other double ocarinas. And unlike most of them, it's not bulky in shape. I think people will like the form of this instrument. It's not like anything else.


Sent via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on February 24, 2015, 06:51:04 pm
I hope whatever the material that it is made of isn't too costly so that price isn't too high.  Will there be a low cost version vs a high cost version such as there is now between the polycabonate and the warm stone or wood?  I own both poly and warm stone versions for the key of C but would like to start out on the cheap end and then get the more expensive version later on after using it awhile.

I too hope I am on the waiting list for the first production run.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on February 24, 2015, 07:41:58 pm
I hope whatever the material that it is made of isn't too costly so that price isn't too high.  Will there be a low cost version vs a high cost version such as there is now between the polycabonate and the warm stone or wood?  I own both poly and warm stone versions for the key of C but would like to start out on the cheap end and then get the more expensive version later on after using it awhile.

I too hope I am on the waiting list for the first production run.

Just shoot an email over to Karl, then you'll be on it for sure. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 25, 2015, 06:03:44 pm
I hope whatever the material that it is made of isn't too costly so that price isn't too high.  Will there be a low cost version vs a high cost version such as there is now between the polycabonate and the warm stone or wood?

I don't know what the future may hold, but initially there will just be one version, as I understand it. The cost will be less about the material and more about the time needed to make them. In the case of polycarbonate MOs, the cost savings is a result of parts being able to be manufactured in "bulk" (not to imply that vast quantities were being made), for later hand assembly, finishing, etc. While that approach is in principle possible for the PR, in the real world the obstacle is tooling costs, which are very high. I only know about this because my father was a toolmaker, and used to explain to me the complexity of building tools to make just about any manufactured thing. It's the sort of thing that's invisible to most of us who are not actually in the business of making things.

I think for the foreseeable future the PR will be individually made by hand, which of course includes the use of machines for cutting, grinding, drilling, buffing, etc. So it's not realistic to expect prices in the range of polycarbonate MOs.

There are plastic double ocarinas that are inexpensive. I own one, but I never play it. The PR is a completely different class of instrument, providing a completely different experience for the player. I can say that having only played a "rough draft" prototype.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Rune on February 26, 2015, 11:08:35 pm
I'm confused about the range. If it's C5 to C7 does that mean it starts an octave above middle C? If the regular C ocarina starts at B4, that's the B above high C? Having the numbers switch at the C instead of the A makes my head hurt.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 27, 2015, 01:50:19 pm
I'm confused about the range. If it's C5 to C7 does that mean it starts an octave above middle C? If the regular C ocarina starts at B4, that's the B above high C? Having the numbers switch at the C instead of the A makes my head hurt.

Yes, it starts an octave above middle C. I'm using the notation described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation), in which the numbers change at C. As far as I know, this is pretty standard. All of the so-called "alto C" ocarinas have a "low C" of C5; those with sub-holes may go down to A4, which is the first A above middle C on a piano.

One of the final details Karl is working on involves the position of the voicing windows so that low B (B4) can be played by shading the windway with the lower lip. This wasn't possible on the prototype I had.

On the current MO C, I routinely play low B, Bb, and A, by tipping the ocarina up and shading with my upper lip. This enables me to get those low notes, especially B, without using any significant breath cut. Bb and A do require a bit of a breath cut. On the PR the windows are on the bottom, so clearly tipping the ocarina up isn't going to work, but tipping it down is a possibility, if the window is close enough. That's what Karl is dialing in now.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Rune on February 28, 2015, 07:33:22 am
Thanks for clarifying that, Ubizmo, and for the wiki page. I don't understand it all, but I'm getting there. Good to know the sound played isn't the exact same note as the note on the paper. As a drummer and bass player, reading SMN wasn't something I focused on.

I can get the B and sometimes the Bb by tilting the ocarina up the way you describe, but the A is elusive for me, and I can't get it consistently. More practice will help, I'm sure. Looking forward to what you think when the real thing comes out, and you can share whether the low A is possible. And I'm really interested in the way you described the tone of the PR. I love my C and G ocarinas, but a touch less volume would be nice sometimes.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on March 01, 2015, 01:43:29 am
The prototype was just a touch "softer" in both volume and tone. That's the only way I can describe it. I'm as curious as anyone to see what the release version is like.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Pat Anderson on March 03, 2015, 02:53:19 pm
Still on the list, still waiting patiently!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on March 03, 2015, 04:20:19 pm
Still on the list, still waiting patiently!

As soon as it's possible to do so, I intend to make some videos that show how it works and what it can do.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: TicTocOc on March 03, 2015, 05:34:41 pm
Hearing it first by playing it was what I was hoping for, but at this point I would just love to hear and see it in a video.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on March 04, 2015, 08:43:34 pm
At one time Karl had a video posted of him playing one of his prototypes somewhere on the website.   I wish I could remember where I saw it.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on March 08, 2015, 10:41:44 pm
I think he just held it up, but didn't play it. I could be wrong.

I think it's important to understand that at the same time these prototypes are being refined, regular single-chamber MOs have to be produced. Each prototype variant it's time-consuming to build, from Karl's description of the process, so it can take a long time to test a small number of variations individually. Combining them obviously takes even longer.

Sent via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 08, 2015, 02:00:39 am
Well it has been about 6 months since this thread started.  I was wondering how much sooner it will be before the pro-range hits the shelves so to speak?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on June 09, 2015, 12:01:10 pm
All I'm going to say is, "Just make sure these questions stay on the forums and don't keep Karl away from his work with phone/email responses."


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on June 29, 2015, 07:08:08 pm
Well it has been about 6 months since this thread started.  I was wondering how much sooner it will be before the pro-range hits the shelves so to speak?

I don't have an answer to that, but I can say in general terms that the development process is exceedingly slow for a number of reasons. The main one, however, is that the turnaround time for getting a prototype, testing, and creating a modified prototype is quite lengthy -- easily a month, sometimes more.

The prototype I tested in late 2014 was pretty much ready for market, by may standards, but Karl's standards are several rungs higher than mine! As I think I mentioned, he really wanted to reduce the size of a couple of the tone holes. That's anything but easy to do, without throwing the tuning of the whole thing off; so he had to do a lot of experimentation, and there's just no way to do it quickly.

Anyway, last I heard, he has a prototype he's pretty happy with, so that's very promising.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: R-Jay on July 13, 2015, 10:02:20 pm
I hope that the new model comes out soon.  The online store is out of stock of hardwood and warmstone instruments. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on July 14, 2015, 06:51:45 am
R-Jay wrote:
Quote
The online store is out of stock of hardwood and warmstone instruments

If you're in a rush, there appear to be a couple of "seconds" still available on this list :

http://www.ocarinaboard.com/bb/index.php?topic=2394.msg18015#msg18015


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 04, 2016, 03:31:37 am
Ok this thread was started over a year ago.  Is their anything new going on with the ProRange?  I am still waiting and saving my pennies.


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 04, 2016, 11:39:14 pm
Ok this thread was started over a year ago.  Is their anything new going on with the ProRange?  I am still waiting and saving my pennies.

There definitely is. ;)

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 05, 2016, 01:42:28 am
Can you be a little more specific, or are you bound to secrecy?

I just hope you haven't taken a blood oath or anything like that.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on February 07, 2016, 08:00:48 pm
I'm not bound to secrecy, but I don't want to say anything out of turn either. A lot has been going on in the year since I started this thread, and when I did so neither Karl not I thought it would take a year to get to where things are now. Otherwise I wouldn't have started it, just to avoid raising expectations.

But I can say that things have moved forward a great deal, obstacles have been overcome, and we should have an announcement very soon.

I've been waiting for this since 2008. I know Karl has been waiting, and working, a lot longer than that.


via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Twist on June 04, 2016, 03:13:56 pm
I really want to get one. Been waiting for what seems like forever.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: R-Jay on June 07, 2016, 11:42:40 pm
Ubizmo wrote:

>The "ProRange" is not, in fact, vaporware.<

Still awaiting evidence to prove otherwise. 

 ???


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 11, 2016, 04:53:11 am
Still saving my pennies. I have several containers of them now. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: R-Jay on June 15, 2016, 08:24:28 pm
I'm saving my pennies, too, Harp Player.  I hope the "ProRange" is a huge success.  I do not have high hopes, though.  This thread is something like 18 months old, and Karl hasn't been seen around here for something like 2 years.  The Mountain Ocarina Facebook page hasn't been updated for 3 years.   Just my observations.....


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 17, 2016, 05:02:43 pm
I am not on facebook, so I can't speak to that part, but I have noticed a few things like: no new 'high end ocarinas' in 2 or 3 years, and now they only have the Polly G available. I hope that things are still going well for MO  because they do make a fine product.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on June 19, 2016, 01:50:17 am
I also am eagerly anticipating the release of the Pro Range instruments. If I had to guess, (and this may just be my wishful thinking) I'd say the stock of regular poly C ocs has been permitted to run dry in anticipation of a new product that will replace and improve on it. If the pro range turns out to be an affordable pocket-size ocarina in the key of C, then I can't imagine there will be much demand for the old style once it is released.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 20, 2016, 03:42:08 am
Quote
Insert Quote
I also am eagerly anticipating the release of the Pro Range instruments. If I had to guess, (and this may just be my wishful thinking) I'd say the stock of regular poly C ocs has been permitted to run dry in anticipation of a new product that will replace and improve on it. If the pro range turns out to be an affordable pocket-size ocarina in the key of C, then I can't imagine there will be much demand for the old style once it is released.

I hope that is what is going on.  The last I heard the Pro-Range wouldn't be mass produced but that was over a year ago.  It would be nice to hear something official every now and then.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on June 20, 2016, 09:54:33 am
would be nice to hear something official every now and then.

Couldn't agree with you more. I respect Karl for his apparent dedication to the project, but if it were my business I'd be hyping the new product line like Rolex at Wimbledon.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 28, 2016, 06:52:31 pm
Well… where should I begin?  First, I am touched by how supportive you have been! You guys have really hung in there with us despite the interminable wait, and I am grateful.  So, here’s a little update on “Pro-Range.” (For the record, what we’ve been calling “Pro-range” here on the forum actually goes by another name, but I’ll be talking more about that soon. For the purposes of this post, I’ll just call it PR.)

PR is light, durable, pleasing, fluid-fingering, has a small, pocket-sized footprint, and plays two chromatic octaves. It really is the take-along flute I’ve always wanted but couldn’t get anywhere. I love playing it!

I tried hard to bring PR to the market this past Christmas, but I realized that, in order to make any money on the instrument, I’d have to charge $400 a piece. Also, production was going to be extremely limited because, even though PR is simple and intuitive to play, its interior design is very complex and requires great precision. Thus, I finally decided not to offer you an overly expensive, virtually unavailable flute last year. 

After continuing to test and consider other manufacturing options, I’ve decided to place an order for quality injection molds on August 1st--about 5 weeks from now.  PR needs to be molded as several “interlocking” components, so the molds are not cheap.  However, at present, this is the only manufacturing method I’m aware of that will provide the precision we need while allowing us to lower the price substantially and keep up with demand.  Although the Connecticut-based molder says the molds will take 8 weeks to build, my own experience would suggest that it could take up to 12 weeks--or even a bit more. Hopefully this will put PR in your hands sometime in October or early November. 

How will we pay for the molds?  At present, we plan to pay for the molds by creating detailed PR demonstration videos and then pre-selling a certain number of instruments (at a discount) to our past customers.  You’ll be hearing more about that soon. If you are not on the PR waiting list and would like to be, please email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com .

Feel free to ask me any other questions you may have.  I’ll be pleased to answer them, unless you press too hard for information that is still classified, in which case I may feel compelled to send one of my “associates” to your house late one night to have a “friendly” chat with you.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on June 28, 2016, 10:21:39 pm
Well THIS is just the best news I've had all week! Karl, you are the man. Is there any way I can help you promote the new release, other than my standard raving about your existing ocarina models to everyone who will listen?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 29, 2016, 05:13:57 am
Karl,

 I am thrilled to hear that your design is finalized  and it will should be available by the end of the year.  As I have stated before I want one so I will be sending you the email in a few moments.  In the mean time I am waiting for your demo videos to be posted.

Edit: Do you know what the price will be (or at least a range) ?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 30, 2016, 06:59:40 pm
Thanks, guys! 

The price?  One major reason that we are moving to injection molding is to bring the price below $100.  How much below? We won't know until we are actually molding and assembling.  We have made a lot of sacrifices, financial and otherwise, to get to this point.

How to help with the launch? I greatly appreciate you asking because we'll certainly need your help.  But I'll have more to say about that as the time draws nearer.  Right now I'm working very hard so that we can place the order for the tooling on August 1st.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on June 30, 2016, 09:20:34 pm
Karl I'll be honest I was absolutely ready to pay $400+. Less than 100 dollars a unit is a VERY modest price for a decade of R&D. Especially considering your creations have the potential to revolutionize how music is introduced to millions of people around the world.

Whatever the final cost, I wish you only the greatest of success, however you choose to define it.

And just for curiosity's sake, can you disclose what key the new instrument will be tuned to, and what the lowest and highest fingered notes will be?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 01, 2016, 02:07:49 am
The lowest fingered note is C5 and the highest is C7, with all the sharps (and flats) in between.  In addition, it is designed to play B4 by tipping the instrument down a bit to shade the window with your lower lip.  One thing that makes this flute very intuitive to play is that you use the same fingerings to play the upper C major scale as you do to play the lower C major scale.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 01, 2016, 06:22:06 am
Thank you for the update Karl.  I certainly don't want to keep you from your hard work of getting the tooling order made. I am very excited about the news and even more excited about the price. I consider that to be a great deal.  Where I work we make medical grade injection molded plastics so I know that those molds are not cheap to make.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 01, 2016, 11:23:02 am
Thank you Karl  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 01, 2016, 02:52:34 pm
By the way, this is as good a time as any to say how very grateful I am to Ubizmo for all his wise, thoughtful, experienced, and helpful feedback and advice on "pro-range."  He has been a faithful friend throughout.  Then there is my incredibly marvelous, always supportive wife, Susan....  and so many of you who provided encouragement.  Anyway, back to work.  There are miles to go before I sleep...   


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: SteamDome on July 03, 2016, 02:28:14 am
This is excellent news. Congratulations Karl on seeing this through. We've all been hoping this day would come. Very exciting news indeed. Hopefully by the time it's released I'll have learned to play the ocarina well enough to give the PR a go.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 03, 2016, 03:21:21 pm
Hi, SteamDome, you said, "Hopefully by the time it's released I'll have learned to play the ocarina well enough to give the PR a go."  I think you'll find that "the flute formerly known as pro-range" is very approachable for beginners also.  Lately, since I now have a range of a full two octaves, I've been playing a whole new repertoire: many songs I've loved but didn't have enough range to play before.  However, this morning I enjoyed playing a lot of my old friends from the 300 Celtic Folsongs book, which made me think about your comment. If you can play songs on the poly G, for instance, you'll soon have no problem playing them on the "pro-range" because the "pro-range" fingerings are based on our present instruments. I'll explain this more in the future.

Also, I want to do an online version of our Learning to Play music curriculum specifically for those who want to learn to read music by playing the PR.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 07, 2016, 01:14:18 pm
Yesterday was an important day.  After much preparation, Susan and I drove to a long meeting with the molders--the guys who will actually build our new tools.  Then we drove to a different part of the state for a long meeting with the mold designer.  Both meetings were very fruitful. However, our design is quite complex, so there are plenty of challenges ahead.  Anyway, we keep taking one step forward...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 07, 2016, 04:44:01 pm
I am thrilled to hear about the progress. I know it has been a huge commitment on your part to get to this point. Now it is in the final stretch so I know you (and your customers) are getting excited.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 07, 2016, 07:54:05 pm
Very exciting!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 08, 2016, 07:33:40 pm
Thanks for the encouragement, guys!  We officially hired the mold designer yesterday, and suddenly things have started to move very fast. I'm thrilled because this individual is extremely experienced and competent.  Already we've exchanged several detailed emails about how to overcome manufacturing challenges, and I appreciate his resourcefulness, quick grasp of difficult concepts, and clear communication. So... so far, so good!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 08, 2016, 09:36:45 pm
A good tool and die shop won't waste any time working out the details so that they can start cutting steel. I know that machining tool steel seems like a slow process, but molds are made to extremely tight tolerances so it is worth the wait.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 09, 2016, 10:51:51 pm
Karl do you have any special plans for publicizing and marketing your new product beyond the forum of ocarina enthusiasts?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 10, 2016, 02:37:50 am
I don't know what Karl has been doing but I did post his first message about getting dies made on TON so that a larger part of the Ocarina community will know that the PR is about to become a reality. I know a lot of those guys are hard core transverse ocarina players, but their are some that will be more than glad to buy one because it is so innovative.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 10, 2016, 01:25:48 pm
We have very definite plans for letting people know about our new flute soon, beginning with you guys, our faithful past customers.  When we officially place an order for the molds, we're going to reach out to past customers to offer you an opportunity to pre-purchase an instrument. By doing so, you'll be helping make this dream a reality.  Specifically, you'd be helping to offset the high costs for tooling, tool design, and a slew of other costs that you might not imagine if you haven't gone through something like this. Along with the pre-purchase offer, we also plan to launch a new facebook page and website so that you can see see, hear, and ask questions about this instrument that you might choose to pre-purchase. 

Why am I not shouting this to the four winds yet?  Well, as a few of you know who have been following this closely, there have been many obstacles and false starts. Even though we've had a "finished" design for some time now, I haven't wanted to call attention to the project until we had an actual product that we could produce in reasonable numbers and sell at an affordable price. After testing other production methods, including very in-depth testing of 3D printing technologies, we've finally made the decision to bite the bullet and invest in expensive tooling in order to support the precision and complexity of our design and to make it affordable to those of you who want what I want: a tough light pocket-sized take-along flute with two chromatic octaves and fluid, intuitive fingering. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 11, 2016, 02:16:14 am
Karl I'm delighted to hear that you plan to market to a broader audience after the pre-production heavy lifting is done. I do believe there are many MILLIONS of people who would LOVE this instrumental concept, who just simply haven't heard of it yet.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 11, 2016, 07:22:47 pm
Wow!
For some reason, Tapatalk hasn't been notifying me of posts to this thread.  I just happened to visit the MO site to see if any more ocarinas were in stock, and popped over to the forum to see if there was any action.

WOW!!!
It's great to hear such significant progress on the PR has been made!  I'll be confirming my spot on the waiting list right away.

Congratulations on finalizing the design, and moving to production, Karl.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 13, 2016, 06:53:36 pm
I also wasn't getting notifications, and I haven't been checking in very often. I'm glad Karl has decided to start to talk about the "PR". In earlier posts, I tried to convey something of the sheer complexity of the project. The time involved in testing just a single change in the design, especially in the early stages of development, was mind-boggling. But that's how it is when you're a small company, without dedicated R&D resources.

Anyway, it's going to be well worth the wait.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 13, 2016, 07:38:38 pm
Answers to a Few Questions:

Although I prefer to wait to post videos until right before we place an order for our new tooling, I've noticed a growing interest in recent forum posts and wanted to thank you for your support with at least a little information. So, without pictures, audio, or video, here’s a quick glimpse of our new pocket-sized flute.

Our new flute’s compact footprint makes it easy to keep on you. As much as possible, it was designed with everyday carry in mind. Upcoming pictures and videos will help you to see what I mean. To some, I definitely seem obsessed with making this flute easy to bring along, but --to me-- what good is a flute that you left at home?!

It is tuned to a C major scale but plays all the sharps and flats, so you can play in any scale.  To help you envision its range, here are the notes that it plays on the C major scale:  B  C  D  E  F  G  A  B  C  D  E  F  G  A  B  C .

On its inside, the new flute has two sound chambers, but there is just one set of toneholes. Notes in bold below can be played with exactly the same fingering on either the upper or lower chamber. Also, the bold notes below employ the same fingering pattern as our polycarbonate C or G ocarinas.  As a result, its fingering is more intuitive and easier to grasp than that of other small flutes of a similar range. As with any instrument, there is a learning curve, but this significantly simplified fingering system makes fingering faster, more fluid and improvisation more natural.  I enjoy playing it.

The lower chamber plays  B  C  D  E  F  G  A  B  C  D . 

The upper chamber plays  B  C  D  E  F  G  A  B  C .

The upper chamber is tuned an octave above the lower chamber.

Also, there are four middle notes that you can play on either chamber, whichever is most convenient. The overlapping notes are  B  C  C# and D. These notes really facilitate more fluid playing of fast or challenging passages.


Other Questions You Might Have:

--This flute was designed to play the lowest B by tilting the tail end downwards slightly to shade the window. This takes some practice, but you soon get the hang of it.
--The overlapping middle B on the upper chamber is played with a left pinky tonehole, exactly like on our polycarbonate G ocarinas.
--The “high” D (which is actually middle D) on the lower chamber is played with a left thumb hole.  Of course, you can also play that same middle D note with a “regular” D fingering on the upper chamber--whichever is more convenient.
--The design of this flute makes it more stable to hold on notes that require you to lift most of your fingers.
--The highest notes of the upper chamber are easy to sound and are not judged shrill, making the flute more enjoyable from a player’s perspective.
--There are two side-by-side blowing entrances, one for the lower chamber and one for the upper chamber. After designing & testing three types of sliding or rotating mouthpieces, we felt that a “solid-state” design was simpler, smaller, lighter, more durable, more affordable, and --most importantly-- just as fast after you practice with it for a while.
--We designed the mouthpiece so that you don’t tend to accidentally blow into both windways at once unless you are specifically trying to. (Yes, there are many songs that you can play on both chambers at once if you choose to do so.) 
--If you are a newbie and are afraid to take on two octaves at once, you can choose to play either chamber separately until you are more confident. In other words, either the upper chamber or lower chamber can serve as a fully functioning flute with basically the same intuitive linear fingering pattern. I’ve actually published a 50 page book to help you learn to play step-by-step and to give you a bunch of beautiful songs that take advantage of the two octave range. I (and others) will also be posting lots of videos to teach beginners and more advanced players to get the most out of the two octaves in their pocket.

That’s all for now.  Feel free to ask any questions, but please don’t be disappointed if I choose to hold off answering some of them for now. The truth is, I’ll feel more comfortable discussing some things soon when we begin accepting pre-orders.  For now, if you’d like be on the waiting list, please email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com .


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 14, 2016, 01:46:44 am
Will there be different colors?


Will


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 14, 2016, 07:26:48 pm
Colors, colors, colors...  We're giving this a lot of thought. After considering different options, I have to say that matte black with gold highlights (logos) looks very nice. The surfaces of the instrument will have a subtle texture to enhance appearance, to make handling more secure, and to avoid being a glossy fingerprint magnet.  With such a texture, experience suggests that darker colors on the tonehole and thumbhole surfaces will continue to look good whereas lighter colors can begin to look dirty over time.

Until you see the shape and design of the instrument, it's sort of hard to imagine colors on it. During the pre-ordering period, it would be simple to create mock-ups of different color schemes. I've thought about requesting that you guys vote on colors. My only concern is that doing so could slow the release and raise costs.  It depends somewhat on how enthusiastic the initial response is.

What do you think?

On another note, the mold designer has sent us pictures of what "..." will look like.  I'm very pleased.  Our prototypes look great, but would the molded instruments look as good?  We have an answer. Yes!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 14, 2016, 09:22:34 pm
This is beyond exciting. Another question for you Karl:

Does simultaneously playing through both windways enhance or alter the timbre in any way versus playing through one chamber only?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 15, 2016, 12:09:14 am
Black w/gold accents and no delay works for me. At the price point your expecting, you could do colors later. Looking forward to you sharing those pictures.


Will


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 15, 2016, 02:27:09 am
Tuna, you asked, "Does simultaneously playing through both windways enhance or alter the timbre in any way versus playing through one chamber only?"
Well, I just played Amazing Grace on both chambers simultaneously, which is the only song that I can remember having played with this technique. There is quite definitely a different timbre, and I was once told by another instrument maker that "it is a nice effect." It's a rich sound that is different than either chamber being played alone. However, to put this in proper context, its use is limited to one octave songs on the C major scale. Who knows? Perhaps someday I'll develop the habit of using this technique to add punch or variety to chosen notes, but for now I rarely ever make use of it.

Thanks for the feedback on colors, Will. Others of you, please feel free to comment on this.  We'll post pictures hopefully in the next couple of weeks, when the mold is completely designed.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 15, 2016, 04:56:45 am
In regards to the colors Black works fine for me.  I want people to be paying attention to the sound quality instead of the color anyway.  As someone who knows a little about injection molding I would say don't waste your money (time and material) in doing a lot of color changing unless their is a huge demand for a certain color.

I like the idea of being able to play both octaves at one time I think that would be great for adding accent and punch to a song in the right place.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 15, 2016, 11:08:29 am
Awesome that's the answer I was hoping for.

Since Ocarinas have no overtones like other flutes such as the recorder, I had speculated that notes from the higher register would compliment the lower and "fill out" the sound.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 15, 2016, 06:59:28 pm
If the tone holes are bisected, can you "half-hole" and play chords?


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 16, 2016, 09:40:56 pm
If the tone holes are bisected, can you "half-hole" and play chords?
In principle you can do this, using some unorthodox fingerings, but I don't think it would be musically practical. But I haven't really made a serious attempt to do it so who knows?

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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: R-Jay on August 04, 2016, 11:07:58 pm
Ubizmo wrote:

>The "ProRange" is not, in fact, vaporware.<

Still awaiting evidence to prove otherwise. 

 ???


Well, I'm glad that I had a small part in reviving this thread, and getting Karl active on this board again.  Obviously, if a Pro Range is about $100, I'll be buying one. 



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 05, 2016, 05:21:54 am
Ubizmo wrote:

>The "ProRange" is not, in fact, vaporware.<

Still awaiting evidence to prove otherwise. 

 ???


Well, I'm glad that I had a small part in reviving this thread, and getting Karl active on this board again.  Obviously, if a Pro Range is about $100, I'll be buying one. 





I would order mine today if I could. I have been waiting on it for several years now.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on August 05, 2016, 01:34:13 pm
Me, too.  After Karl's recent posts, I'm excited, too.

Any more news tidbits? :)

Pictures? :o

Sound samples? :D

Videos? ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: cymbrogi on August 07, 2016, 10:33:27 pm
Karl,
Black is fine by me.  I would personally say meet all the orders you get with black and save colors for the future.  I am so glad to hear that it should be getting very close.  I know I have been waiting for many many years for this point.  Again, let us know if we can help at all.  Thanks for all your hard work.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on August 09, 2016, 08:39:36 pm
I started playing the ocarina in 2008, and from the very beginning I was interested in this instrument, even though I had only the vaguest idea how it could work. So its about eight years of waiting for me.

The one who has been waiting longest is Karl.

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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 11, 2016, 07:41:01 pm
 Me too Ubizmo.  I got interested in ocarinas in 2007.  I bought two mountain ocarinas (a C and G )in the spring of 2008.  To be honest I had given up on the pro version.  I just bought a triple ocarina and was thinking about the status of the pro.  It's been a while since I've been here. So this is the first I've heard of the new pro. I am very excited about this new ocarina.  I want to be on that list. I want to buy one. I hope it becomes a very hot seller for Karl and Company.  They deserve it !!!  :)


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on August 11, 2016, 11:56:57 pm
I hope it's a hot seller too, and I hope someday Karl gets to tell the whole story of its development. It would make a good book. There have been some crazy setbacks and breakthroughs that I know about, and no doubt many more that I don't know about.

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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 12, 2016, 01:33:55 am
I posted about the "PR" on TON the other day, some of them were interested, but I didn't get much feedback from the post.  I think most of them are diehard transverse fans.  It is too bad because the MO has much better ergonomics than any transverse ever made.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 12, 2016, 02:44:48 am
 I think when they see  and here it actually in production there will be a lot of interest in it.  I will probably always play both for me it's variety is the spice of life.  So like I would never stop playing  my harmonica  or feel like I needed to choose between harmonica and ocarina because I love to play both. But everybody's different so some may feel like they need to choose one or the other but I just like having one of each. It's funny that a lot  of harmonica players and ocarina players are also collectors  and have more than one sometimes more than 10 and I know some that have over 100.  I have five harmonicas and three soon-to-be five ocarinas.  One of those I hope will be a pro mountain ocarina. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 12, 2016, 04:52:31 pm
I carry 21 harmonicas when I am playing, I also have several that I no longer carry.  Some get much more use than others ( don't need an F# very often  :) ).


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 16, 2016, 05:00:07 am
 Hey harp player. What's some of your favorite harps?
I like my Hohner special 20 and Lee Oskars a lot.
 I'm hoping that this first batch of PR's will exceed expectations.
The plastic triple I just got I am learning pretty quick.
So I'm hoping when I can get my hands on a PR I can pick it up really quick. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 16, 2016, 05:34:32 pm
I have mostly Lee Oskars, with a few SP20's in the tenor range. I also have a 2 Hering 1923 vintage harmonicas for cases when I am going to be mostly playing chords (too bad they quit making those). I also have a Bushman Souls Voice in the key of F because the overtones on it are not has harsh sounding as the Lee Oskar.  I have thought about getting an E in the Bushman as well.  I also have a CX12 tenor C that don't see much use.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 16, 2016, 08:04:18 pm
That's funny. I have been eyeing the Bushman and the CX12 for a while now. Do you not like the CX12?  :o


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 17, 2016, 01:40:22 am
It's not that I don't like the CX12, I just don't need it that often, so I didn't put in the effort to learn to play it properly.  I did have a minor issue with the slide sticking when I first got it which I was able to resolve with a good sharp knife.


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on August 17, 2016, 02:22:10 pm
I'm hoping that this first batch of PR's will exceed expectations.
The plastic triple I just got I am learning pretty quick.
So I'm hoping when I can get my hands on a PR I can pick it up really quick. :)

You're going to find it a lot smoother and more natural to play than your triple or, for that matter, double. Not having to move your right hand when switching chambers is a Big Deal.


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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 17, 2016, 04:33:41 pm
That is what I am trying to get my head around. I've looked at the patents but couldn't get the pictures to come up. So the PR has 2 wind ways but one set of note holes or am I getting that part wrong?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 17, 2016, 05:49:34 pm
Ok. I went back and reread what you (Ubizmo) and Karl said about the PR.  The part I was trying to get straight is how one single set of holes can both play duel notes and single notes.  So I thought maybe I misunderstood originally what I had read.  This sounds like my dream instrument. :) ???


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 17, 2016, 05:53:34 pm
 :) This is like the third or fourth time I reread everything trying to memorize it and get it straight in my head. : ;D



Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on August 18, 2016, 01:19:43 am
That is what I am trying to get my head around. I've looked at the patents but couldn't get the pictures to come up. So the PR has 2 wind ways but one set of note holes or am I getting that part wrong?

That's correct. It's hard to explain but it has been discussed around here before. An early prototype is seen (briefly) in one of Karl's old videos.

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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 18, 2016, 02:06:48 pm
I will be glad when we have something tangible to look at and hear. I hear Karl is making some videos to demonstrate it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on August 18, 2016, 02:24:32 pm
That is what I am trying to get my head around. I've looked at the patents but couldn't get the pictures to come up. So the PR has 2 wind ways but one set of note holes or am I getting that part wrong?

Have you tried https://www.google.com/patents/US6914179 (https://www.google.com/patents/US6914179) for the pictures?

To me, they look quite similar to the prototype seen in the "future models" video.  I'm hoping for something more along the lines of the Poly G aesthetically.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 18, 2016, 06:27:55 pm
Hey thanks,Willfcc. That one worked.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 18, 2016, 06:40:51 pm
If Karl can hit the right level of looks,sound,ease of use and portability. Throw in some of that world famous customer service and clever marketing. This could be a big hit for Mountain Ocarinas.  :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 18, 2016, 08:12:36 pm
Okay, time for an update. I've been meaning to post again as soon as I had every thing worked out, but... I've been on an all out prototyping sprint for the last month.  Here's why.

First, a little background... I originally designed "PR" (which will have another name when released) to be made from Dymondwood. Later, when Dymondwood was no longer available, I tested many materials and ultimately switched to Micarta. (Because of the complex design and precision of this instrument, less stable or durable materials such as traditional hardwoods are not suitable.) After a very long process of prototyping, spread across several versions, countless variations of each version, and even a few different names, I was finally ready to release "PR." However, after some months of trying to work out all the production issues, I finally had to accept the difficult reality that my micarta flutes would require far too much highly skilled labor. As mentioned previously, the price would have to be too high for your liking or mine, and supply would be extremely limited. In other words, most of you would probably never get to play one.

After considering other options, I switched to 3D printing, attracted by the ability that 3D printing would give me to respond quickly to feedback from customers. With help from a grant from the State of Connecticut, the wonderful people at the Connecticut Center for Advanced Technology got me through the initial stages of the the 3D printing process. Ultimately, after a lot of experimentation and testing of different 3D printing technologies, I finally realized --once again-- that the 3D prints would also require several hours of skilled labor in order to produce a top quality flute. That, along with high printing costs, meant that 3D printed instruments would also have to be expensive and rare. (And the truth is, even though we printed the instrument in a few pieces so that I could perform extensive tweaking inside and out, my 3D printed instruments simply don't play quite as well as my precision-machined micarta instruments. 3D printing is a fantastically useful technology, but the precision and surface quality is still lacking for my particular application.)

Now we are moving toward injection molding, a process that --provided the mold is made correctly-- can deliver the kind of precision and affordable prices that I'm striving for. What is the hold up? Well, since I designed "PR" with other technologies in mind, there are certain features that don't translate well to injection molding. After a few meetings with our mold designer, I realized that, unless I was willing to make some design changes, excellent results were not a sure thing. Even though it was initially discouraging to think of changes at this late stage, I wasn't willing to roll the dice on iffy mold design. This new flute is really something special, and the injection molded version should be every bit as good as my prototypes.

Unfortunately, one of the needed changes involved tweaking the large sound chamber. Of course, I thought I'd be done after an intensive sprint of a week or so. However, every little change inside a chamber can affect sound, tuning, toneholes, voicing dimensions, etc., and making super precise prototypes to test the variables is very time-consuming. (Unless, the prototypes are carefully made, you can't accurately evaluate them.) Finally, DECIDING between a few similar but distinct versions can be highly subjective and time-consuming, especially since the same instrument will sound different in different rooms, etc. Thus, my week-long sprint has turned into a month-long mara-sprint.  The end result is turning out better than ever, but it's a lot of work. As my loving wife has reminded me, "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."

Next week I hope to get this project back in the hands of our mold designer. Sorry I'm not farther along, but we keep making steady progress.  Poco a poco, se va lejos.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 18, 2016, 09:38:59 pm
Karl, thank you for the update.  I am sure that it has been a very long journey for you.  The passion that you have for your instruments shows up very well in the C and G models that you have been selling.  I am sure that once the new model comes out it will be something truly special. I am just sorry that you are having such a hard time in adapting your design to the IM process.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 18, 2016, 11:10:47 pm
Thanks Karl very much for keeping us in the loop. For me it helps keep the wait bearable.
It also gives us new things to talk about.  :)


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on August 19, 2016, 07:15:47 pm
Start thinking about what music you'll play when you have two full octaves to work with.


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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 19, 2016, 07:24:11 pm
I already have a few songs lined up.  They work fine on my Harmonicas, but I think that they would be better on an Ocarina if they would fit.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on August 19, 2016, 08:01:54 pm
Happy Belated Birthday, Ubizmo!


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on August 20, 2016, 01:56:34 am
Happy Belated Birthday, Ubizmo!
Thank you! I'm a lot grayer than I was in my last video.


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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 20, 2016, 04:47:22 am
 I guess I forgot to put my two cents worth in on the color scheme.  I'm like most of the others. I would rather get it in production sooner and worry about color variations later.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on August 20, 2016, 06:46:32 pm
Like first generation Volkswagens: you can have any color you want as long as it's black.


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Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 20, 2016, 09:43:40 pm
 I just got a Lee Oskar 30th anniversary special edition harmonica and it looks pretty good black and gold.  So I think the PR should look pretty sharp in those colors.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 22, 2016, 01:13:31 pm
Thanks for the support and feedback!  Right now, the plan is for a black instrument with gold logo...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: MedicineMan on August 22, 2016, 04:10:16 pm
Is there a pre-order link for the new model?
Some of us so trust the Ahren enterprise we'd gladly pay now to get in line,
plus some money coming in surely would help all the molding costs ??

Also looking for a pic of the MO Pro-Range.....MOPR.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on August 22, 2016, 06:08:27 pm
Thanks for the support and feedback!  Right now, the plan is for a black instrument with gold logo...

Excellent!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 24, 2016, 05:14:28 pm
Good news! I have finished prototyping all the anticipated design tweaks that will help "PR" to mold better, and I'm pleased with the results. I just set up an appointment with our mold designer for 9 am on Tuesday, August 30th. There are still many challenges ahead, but I'm relieved and thankful to have successfully navigated this bump in the road.  I'll keep ya'll posted.

As far as pictures, sound samples, and pre-ordering to help pay for the mold, there will be news soon. I'd still like to wait until the injection mold is fully designed and we are ready to place an order so they can begin building it. Originally I hadn't planned on speaking anymore about "PR" until it was absolutely ready to go (there have been too many false starts), but I didn't feel right about ignoring you guys when some of you starting asking questions again back in June.

Thanks again for all your encouragement and interest! Together we'll get there.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 24, 2016, 11:57:26 pm
Thanks Karl !!!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: MedicineMan on August 27, 2016, 03:10:09 am
Fingers crossed for good news and good luck on Aug 30th.
I've been absent from the MO world for quite some time; have to admit it is exciting to return
and see this new model on the cusp.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on August 31, 2016, 06:15:48 pm
These are very exciting developments. I'm new to the ocarina world in general, and I get to pick up my basic poly C & G from MO today after work (so thrilled, by the way). I'm hoping that by the time I get used to playing the inline style, maybe this new expanded style will be ready! Lots of luck. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Bunjiro on September 13, 2016, 06:49:23 pm
I was listening to my ocarina albums when Mountain Myst came on and I remembered how much I love the sound of mountain ocarinas (I got my warmstone models many years ago), so I thought I'd check the forum out - and I find this thread! I know you've had many false starts with the ProRange, Karl, but I look forward to seeing what exactly it is that you've come up with, and I'll be waiting patiently. Will definitely order one once they are available!



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on September 21, 2016, 01:57:18 pm
Thanks for all the updates Karl.   I hope everything works out with the new design direction.  I still enjoy my Mos, after many years.   I look forward to more successes in your products.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on October 27, 2016, 03:25:08 am
Any updates?  I know it takes a while to cut molds, but I am still excited at the chance to owning one.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 27, 2016, 08:35:14 pm
Still moving ahead! I'll post an update in the next day or two.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on October 28, 2016, 03:26:31 am
Thanks for the tease,  Karl.   Look forward to hear what's been happening.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 02, 2016, 10:03:03 pm
Where should I begin to try to describe my progress over the last few months?

First, I have to say that I've been having a wonderful time lately playing my accurate (with a bit of expert tweaking) but very expensive 3D printed prototypes. "Pro-Range's" extra range has allowed me to enjoy playing music that I couldn't previously. For instance, I've been playing a lot of gorgeous Turlough O'Carolan tunes that require most or all of "PR's" two-octave range. Delightful, stimulating stuff!  (FYI, some time ago I compiled a book to include with "PR" which will introduce you to playing it in a step by step manner. The book has about 66 beautiful tunes, many of them in 2, 3, or even 4 different keys, including a bunch of Carolan tunes.) I'll try to make some sound samples soon.  Maybe even a video.

And I'm thinking about posting some photos soon. Up to now, I've been hesitant to post photos for a few reasons. The biggest reason is that this has been a long, ambitious process with many twists and turns, and I wanted to be very close to launch before getting too much excitement going. Along those same lines, the photos would give away the flute's actual name, which I've always planned to reveal at the time of launch. (But you guys wouldn't tell anybody, right?) In addition, as we move through the pre-production process, "PR's" outer appearance has been undergoing slight changes, and I hate to show you inaccurate or underwhelming pictures. In other words, the real thing will look better than my prototypes.

Alright, alright! You've convinced me. After talking it out with you guys (thanks for not interrupting!), I've decided to try to post some photos in the next week or so.

As I believe I've posted before, the challenge has been to take a very complex, precise design, which I first prototyped in hard stable materials such as micarta and then later through precision 3D prints, and adapt it so that we could we could affordably* and precisely reproduce it, so that you could afford to buy it.

(When I say affordably*, I'm referring to per unit costs. The expensive up front costs of development, tooling, and the incredible amount of time I've put into this are... well... they are what they are.  When all is said and done, this is the instrument that I've always wanted, the one that I used to wish I could buy somewhere, so we've just kept plugging along through one challenge after another.  It's something I believe in.)

So, what's the latest hold up? Well, since my last substantial posting, we've had four sets of precision 3D prints made. Each subsequent print represents changes we have made to improve and test the moldability of our design as much as possible before the tooling is made. To provide an example, we recently made tweaks to a windway assembly so that it would mold more precisely. So far, I have been working with my tool designer to convert this wonderful pocket-sized flute into something that could be precisely injection molded.  I have just signed off on the design, so now my mold designer will begin to plan out the actual injection mold with all its features, such as gating, cooling, inserts, etc. He tells me that it will be about two weeks before the mold is designed. Then I get quotes on the tooling, and soon (hopefully) we begin cutting steel. I've already had a few meetings over the last several months with the Connecticut company that I hope to work with to build our tooling and then mold our parts.

In truth, I could have signed off on a mold design a couple of months ago, but I have previous experience with four other sets of molds, and I'm just not willing to settle for a pretty good design. I am determined to have an excellent end result, a precise, concert-quality flute that you'll enjoy playing and carrying with you wherever you go. Despite some popular lore to the contrary, engineering grade plastics can offer several advantages over materials such hardwood, clay, or metal, PROVIDED THAT THERE IS AN EXCELLENT DESIGN AND PRECISE ADHERENCE TO THAT DESIGN. That's what I am after.

By the way, if you've been to the Mountain Ocarinas website recently, you'll notice that we are sold out of all our instruments except for our polycarbonate Gs.  Sorry about that!  Some time ago I decided to go out on a limb and cease production of our other instruments so that I could focus on "Pro-range."  While that's been a challenge because it has reduced our sales quite a bit, I'm excited that we're finally drawing close to the finish line with "pro-range." Did I say the finish line? It's actually the starting line.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on November 03, 2016, 03:38:58 am
Good to hear things are progressing.  Would you mind sending along a 3-d printed extra for a beta test ;) 8)
I wait with baited breath for pics, and music clips.

Rob W.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 03, 2016, 06:00:28 am
Thank you very much for the update.   I know that the project has been your baby for a long time It seems like forever to me, I can't imagine what it is like for you.  I would also like thank for not settling for good enough like so many others do when they send a new product to market.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on November 04, 2016, 01:46:38 am
The level of precision needed for this instrument is comparable to that of any other first-class musical instrument. It'll be like nothing else out there.

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 09, 2016, 03:24:04 pm
I tried to post some pictures yesterday, but the files were too large.  Cliff has kindly offered to help me with that, so those pics should appear within the next day or so. 

Rob, you asked --with a wink-- about 3D prints for beta testers.  Even though you were half kidding (weren't you?), I'd love to be sending prototypes to several of you! That has been my plan all along. The problem has been money. For instance, to accurately test our latest four-piece ready-to-injection-mold design, I've had to go with an expensive high-precision form of 3D printing.  To give you an idea, just last week I spent (gulp!) about $900 for the parts for just two 3D printed "pro-ranges."  Of course, I have lots and lots of older prototypes, at MANY stages of developement, but I'm not fond of distributing out-dated or superseded models for testing and feedback.  At this point, Ubizmo (who has been so helpful throughout this development process) is presently the only one besides me who has a "PR" prototype, and not even he has the latest design, which has been slightly improved. I'm anxious to assemble his new one and send it to him, but first I need it in unassembled form to take to a meeting with an ultrasonic welding expert with whom I hope to meet this week.  Ubizmo was spot on with his recent comment about the precision needed for this instrument, which is why I'm being so careful... 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on November 09, 2016, 03:45:57 pm
Thank you so much for the more frequent updates, Karl. Really looking forward to this new ocarina. Excited to see pictures. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 09, 2016, 05:33:25 pm
Okay, I promised pictures, so here are a few that I just took on my phone. Keep in mind that these are only 3D prints and we've tweaked the shape slightly, but these will give you a pretty good idea of the look and size.

For those of you who are super observant, you may discover a subtle hidden clue in these pictures to the name of this new vessel flute. Ah, but not even you guys are that clever, so here's another hint. The name stands for Compact, Optimized, Dual, Aerophone, and --to me-- it represents a small leap forward in music. You probably still haven't guessed, so you'll just have to wait until launch! And don't bother to beg, bribe, or threaten! I'm just not ready to reveal the name yet.

One of the pictures shows our hero being cornered by a few Sopranos -- recorders, that is.  But don't worry. He's not intimidated because, unlike his taller colleagues, his notes are solid, pleasing, and easy-to-sound over the full two chromatic octaves, from the lowest notes to the highest, and he has a more intuitive fingering pattern. Every instrument has its advantages and disadvantages, but who would you rather bring along wherever you go?

It's a busy time, but I'll try to post sound samples soon.

(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/coda01.jpg)

(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/coda02.jpg)

(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/coda03.jpg)

(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/coda04.jpg)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on November 09, 2016, 07:34:56 pm
It looks great Karl!  The fun,  pocketable, playable instrument genre is definitely in the "crosshairs".  Look forward to adding this instrument to my Mountain Ocarina lineup.   Keep up the good work Karl.

Rob W.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on November 09, 2016, 11:14:54 pm
CODA: Child Of Deaf Adults ::)

I kid. But seriously, how much does it cost? Don't answer that. I'll take seven!



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 10, 2016, 01:19:52 am
Thank you so much for posting those pictures Karl. It looks amazing to me.  I am truly looking forward to owing one (even if it is a slightly different shape)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: cymbrogi on November 10, 2016, 08:43:25 pm
Thank you so much for giving us some of these tidbits.  ;D. You have made me excited and giddy all over again.  It looks amazing.  I will be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the next update. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on November 10, 2016, 10:29:41 pm
The prototype I have is a photo-negative version of the one in the pictures. I have to say, the black one looks a LOT better. The form factor of this instrument is wonderful. After playing Mountain Ocarina for years I'm surprised to say that the Cleverly Optimized Dream Axe makes them feel cramped in comparison.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on November 11, 2016, 06:44:41 pm
This is looking awesome! Karl, is there a waiting list we should join for the finished product if we know we want one? I'd love to be on it! I love the idea of a double ocarina that will be friendlier towards smaller hands and more portable. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 11, 2016, 08:43:28 pm
Thanks again to all for the encouragement!

Tuna, amazingly, you were able to guess the name! (What gave it away?) For that reason, my wife and I decided to cordially invite you to a huge Thanksgiving feast in our home, complete with round-trip transportation. Unfortunately, when your “hilarious” acronym suggestion came to the attention of the board, they voted unanimously to UN-invite you to said feast. I'm sure you understand.  As far as price, we're still not sure what our costs will be, but I'm determined to keep it below $100.  (Of course, the solid gold version will be a bit more. Can I put you down for seven of those?)

Here are a couple of pics that show Coda with the clip option.  By the way, I'm wearing Clip-on Coda as I walk and write this post on my treadmill desk.  Coda is quite light in weight and, with the clip, hangs neatly and securely from a belt, waistband, or pocket.  You can also use the clip with a cord to wear Coda around your neck, but I prefer the low profile, side-hugging belt, waistband, or pocket option because I often forget that I am wearing it—until it's time to play.   

The optional clip attaches to Coda with tough 3M VHB tape, so it can be removed (and reattached) if you change your mind about it. 

EriChanHime, it's true the Coda has a much smaller footprint, but it's also just plain easier to play. It's a very different experience in terms of the fluidity of fingering. 

As far as the waiting list is concerned, just email me at Karl@MountainOcarinas.com.

(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/clip01.jpg)
(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/clip02.jpg)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on November 12, 2016, 10:53:57 am
Karl I appreciate the invite! (Even if it was redacted)

And just so everyone knows, I wasn't trying to be nasty with my acronym. It's a real thing!  ;D
https://www.coda-international.org

As a youngster, I spent a good deal of time with Deaf people and learned much about their language, culture and life without sound. That's a large reason why I grew to appreciate music so much in my own life.

While the solid gold model will likely be worn around my neck at some point, seven of them might be cumbersome so I better stick with the regular version until I've worked a little more on my deadlifting strength. Now that you got me thinking about materials, a dymondwood CODA would be pretty neat...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on November 12, 2016, 03:54:41 pm
Quote
... a dymondwood CODA would be pretty neat...

Unfortunately DymondWood™ is long gone, see http://www.rutply.com/

WebbWood™ https://webbwood.com/ may be a suitable alternative, but given the complexities of an instrument like the Coda it's unlikely to be economically available in a non-moulded form  :'(


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 12, 2016, 07:03:42 pm
Tuna, I knew you were not being unkind!  Your only "sin" was in daring to mention any acronym other than MY carefully chosen one (although I did like Ubizmo's).  Considering how long it has taken me to (almost) bring Coda to the market, I've had plenty of time to think about the name. ;)

Good response, Kypfer.  In terms of other materials, all I can say is, "maybe some day."  I've mentioned in earlier posts that the unique interior design of this instrument is extremely complex and precise, so ordinary materials like hardwood are not really stable enough. I did a lot of prototyping in hard, stable materials like Micarta after Dymondwood was no longer available and planned to bring Micarta Codas to the market.  However, I eventually came to realize that supply of such instruments would be extremely limited and they would have to cost several hundred dollars because of the labor involved.  I won't rule it out in the long term when finances improve. First, though, we'll have to recover from the financial sacrifices of pursuing Coda...  Personally, since this instrument is designed to carry with you, I prefer the lighter weight of tough, precise, food safe engineering grade plastics. We'll do our best to make them look good!   

Rweagle (Rob W.) asked in an email, "How much abuse can the belt clip take?  Will it hold after a bump to a wall or corner?"  Good question, and I don't have all the answers. The clip itself is very tough. I wouldn't expect it to break except in extreme circumstances. Could it ever come off? Not easily, but with enough torque it could. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I have broken the belt/pocket clip off a couple of cell phone cases in the last few years when they caught just right on something. That's why I attach the optional clip with tough, impact resistant 3M VHB tape instead of glue.  That way, if the clip gets ripped off, the instrument itself won't break. You'll be able to scrape off the tape and reattach the clip with another strip of it.   I'll do more testing of this in the future, and --of course-- your ongoing feedback will help us to keep improving.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on November 12, 2016, 08:00:05 pm
I'm still not sure whether I'll be a clip person, but I'll definitely give it a try. I'm clumsy enough that I'll be the first to find out how it survives collisions with corners.

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 13, 2016, 02:53:38 am
I am not a big fan of clips for the simple reason that I have lost several knives with clips on them over the last 3 or 4 years.  It is one thing to loose a cheap utility knife, quite another thing to loose an Ocarina.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on November 13, 2016, 11:30:06 am
Wow Kypfer I did not realize that was the case with dymondwood.  :(

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I did get a chuckle from WebbWood.com when I read the blurb for their phenolic high density product.

"This material is perfect for billiard accessories, cue sticks, decorative and hardwaring marine accessories, and nightsticks."

You know, for those discriminating security guards who carry only the finest clubs.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on November 14, 2016, 10:05:24 pm
 This is very cool!!! I'm so glad to finally see it.  I know I'm ready to get one. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 15, 2016, 03:19:59 pm
Interesting reactions to the clip. Personally, I'm enamored with the clip!  It makes it easier than ever before to bring my flute along in an unobtrusive manner: hiking in the woods, at work, playing outside, shopping with my wife, visiting friends, going to a wedding or reunion, traveling, or simply walking around the house.  But it's an option, which means it's definitely not for everybody. When it's available, I'll be very interested in the user feedback from you guys. Will the clip be widely embraced or will it be for the more fanatical (like me)? Time will tell.

Here's a quick and perhaps boring update.  I had a great meeting yesterday with an ultrasonic welding expert. The meeting was important because we not only want a tough, strong flute for everyday carry but we also need some hermetic seals for great sound. I have another meeting on Thursday morning, this time with both my mold designer and the ultrasonic welding expert. With these two skilled, experienced specialists in the same room, we'll discuss joint design, energy director size and placement, and how to bolster some areas that might be at risk for fracture during ultrasonic welding. After the meeting, we'll probably have to make some further tweaks in the mold design. However, those changes should be relatively quick, they won't affect sound or playability, and it's much better to address any issues before the molds are built. It's yet one more step, but I'm encouraged! Like a speedy tortoise, we keep racing toward the finish line!

(Note to those new to this thread: Pics of Coda so far appear on pages 10 and 11 of this thread.)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on November 15, 2016, 04:23:08 pm
That's fantastic, Karl! Again, thank you for wanting this to be the best instrument it can be. Although, of course, I'm impatient to play it. ;)

I took the neck cords off my poly C and G, as it made me feel uncomfortable (I rarely wear necklaces of any kind). I like the idea of a clip, but for me, I keep them in cute little semi-padded bags that I have around (so many odd collections of things I have!), which are small enough to toss in my purse. I always have some kind of purse or mini-backpack or something with me, so I prefer to keep an ocarina in that, rather than attached to my body. But especially for guys, I can see a clip being much preferred over a neck cord.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on November 16, 2016, 06:56:40 am
I like the clip but I think I will use a case with a belt loop or clip that gives it a little more protection from dirt,grime and damage. I have a triple plastic ocarina that I keep in a padded nylon cary case that works well.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on November 16, 2016, 08:10:47 am
I don't think I'd use a clip. I don't like anything hanging from my belt, jeans pocket or wherever ... maybe I'm just too wide ;)

Hopefully the final model will at least have a hole in it for a neck-cord, even if the cord itself isn't supplied  ::)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: K-Ninja on November 16, 2016, 08:06:14 pm
Awesome job on doing your best Karl! You're certainly not giving up and pursuing the best ocarina you can get! I wish you the best of luck in making and finishing the Coda!

I do wonder, though. How tough, food safe engineering grade plastic are we talking here? Will the plastic sound clean and precise along with being able to take a fall to concrete? How clean do the notes sound and how loud are they? (My family never liked very very loud things, but I was hoping this ocarina would be the all-time best)

Basically, I'm asking if the ocarina will be really tough, really good quality, and really really good timbre?

I've never bought an ocarina from this website, but I really want to. I'm doing research(looking at polls) and I think I would like to get one(hence, the Coda, but I still wonder if it will work for what I'm trying to do?(just play Christian song, Celtic songs, Zelda songs, Mario songs, and etc.)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on November 16, 2016, 08:44:31 pm
I do wonder, though. How tough, food safe engineering grade plastic are we talking here? Will the plastic sound clean and precise along with being able to take a fall to concrete? How clean do the notes sound and how loud are they? (My family never liked very very loud things, but I was hoping this ocarina would be the all-time best)

Since the final version of Coda doesn't exist yet, nobody knows exactly what it will be like; not even Karl. But having played a fairly recent prototype pretty extensively, I can say a few things. The notes are quite clean sounding. In terms of loudness, I'd say it's a bit less loud than the regular MOs, but by no means is it a quiet instrument. It's still louder than the typical soprano recorder or tin whistle, especially on the bottom notes. Recorders and whistles are notoriously weak there, but Coda is strong. As you go up in pitch, recorders and whistles get louder--they have to, in order to produce sound at all. Coda is pretty much even across its range.

As for the notes being "clean", I don't think there's any worry there. The final plastic version will be have interior surfaces smoother than any of the prototypes. The thing that most affects the cleanness or purity of the sound, in addition to the exact dimensions of the voicing, is the smoothness of the ceiling of the windway. This is true on any fipple instrument. The final product should be very smooth indeed.

As for durability, I can only say that this is a high priority for Karl's "every day carry" vision of the instrument. Coda is not meant to be an instrument that you have to carry in a special protective case or be afraid of dropping. In that respect it's like the regular MOs. Obviously this doesn't mean that it's built to be deliberately abused, but it should be more than durable enough to carry around on a clip, in a pocket or purse, or whatever. That's the whole point: to be able to be spontaneous and to make music anywhere, anytime.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on November 17, 2016, 12:02:42 am
So...T-Rex Guarantee?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on November 21, 2016, 05:15:29 pm
Hey Karl. Do you think it might be ready in time for Christmas or do you think it might be next year?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 22, 2016, 07:04:56 am
Hey Karl. Do you think it might be ready in time for Christmas or do you think it might be next year?


I would love to buy myself one for Christmas.  :o


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 23, 2016, 09:40:23 pm
Quick update and then a response to a few questions & comments:

The meeting with my mold designer and the ultrasonic welding expert last week was a bit tense at times but was also fruitful.  In the end, although changes might not be needed, we've decided to err on the conservative side by instituting a few slight modifications to make Coda even more robust and to potentially strengthen the ultrasonic bonds.  None of these tweaks will affect sound, ergonomics, or playability, but they may make this already tough instrument a bit tougher. 

Speaking of tough, Willfcc asked about the T-Rex Guarantee.  At this point, the plan is to have a one-year guarantee against accidental breakage.  As some of you know, we stand behind what we make and we strive to treat you the way we'd like to be treated. A solid guarantee is important because I want you to be confident about taking Coda along with you. Personally, I'll leave it to other people to manufacture instruments that are so delicate that you have to baby them or carefully tote them about in a special padded case. Overly fragile instruments are not my cup of tea. Why? Because you tend to leave them at home, in your practice room. In contrast, I specifically designed Coda with a compact footprint and a solid construction so that you can keep it with you. Will it break if you whip it against a wall? Maybe, so don't do that! :D   But it is designed to stand up well to normal, everyday carry. In answer to K-Ninja's questions, Coda is designed to survive being accidentally dropped on a concrete floor, and sound is very nice across the two octaves. By the way, as I hoped, Coda seems to float nicely.  I mention this for kayakers, sailors, etc. (Earlier today I spoke with someone on the Coda waiting list who works on a tugboat, and a friend of mine finds it magical to play when he is out sailing.) 

Kypfer asked about a neck cord.  Well, originally I felt Coda needed a neck cord, but then I fell in love with the clip, which you can also clip onto just about any cord.  Since holding Coda feels more secure and stable than for most ocarinas, a neck cord seems a bit less important.  For those reasons, I wasn't planning to include a neck cord, but it could certainly be an option or even a standard feature, depending on feedback from you all.  You'll notice that Coda's profile is like a dolphin (pictures on pages 10 & 11 of this thread), so many of my prototypes have EYE HOLES drilled for a neck cord.  At this point, I see cord hole eyes as an option rather than a standard feature.  Time will tell. 

Speaking about cases, Coda will include a thin microfiber bag for those who wish to stuff him in a pocket or purse. The idea is to keep purse lint out of toneholes without adding any bulk.  A while back I spent a lot of time testing and finding the perfect belt case for Coda. (Perhaps Ubizmo remembers my obsession with that.) At that time, I didn't want to sell Coda without a great belt case, but then I came up with the clip idea, which has a much smaller, more side-hugging footprint than any belt case, and you have instant access to Coda for quickdraw playing. By the way, Windjammer, in my experience dirt and grime don't seem like an issue with the clip unless you are working with a chainsaw, spray painting a house, mud wrestling, or peeing during a hurricane. ;) 

When will Coda be available? I can only go by what they tell me. My tool designer says the complete tool design (with the recent tweaks) will be all drawn up for the mold builders by the end of November. That would mean that we'll place an order to build the molds in early December. Realistically, that could mean that instruments won't be ready until sometime in February or perhaps March. Of course, they tell me it will be sooner, but it's terribly hard to anticipate delays. After we place an order for the molds, we'll begin vital pre-sales of Coda. I'll talk more about that soon.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Llisas on November 24, 2016, 08:55:35 pm
Thanks for the update, I'm really excited about this! ;D

I hope it'll be available early next year, because in April I'm going on vacations to Europe and I would love to take it with me and make some videos in different countries. Also I'm going to the Ocarina Festival in Budrio :D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 25, 2016, 06:40:16 am
Hi Llisas it has been a long time since I have seen you on here. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on December 08, 2016, 07:47:32 pm
Any updates on how the mold building is going, Karl? Hope it's proceeding smoothly! Would LOVE pictures, if you have any you could share.

I personally don't think CODA really needs holes for a neck cord, but if it does have them, I could see it being cute to have it done like eyes, but then it would hang a bit sideways, perhaps... I like the idea of them being optional.

Also, wondering, the black and white are classy and modern, but will there be options to have the logo done in different colors? Shiny black on matte black, for example, or a nice green or blue? I like to carry my ocarinas with me in a variety of settings, and it would be nice to have it blend in more for situations like that (Ren Faires, and the like).

Hope everyone is preparing for a wonderful holiday season!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Ryang on December 12, 2016, 04:08:43 pm
Haven't been on here in a while, so I had not seen the pics of the Coda till today - Wow!  I am very excited to get ahold of one.  I also have been slack for a quite some time in my practice.  I spent some time this morning working on some Christmas hymns.  It's time to leave my MO hanging around my neck again for a while so I play more often. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: K-Ninja on December 20, 2016, 05:28:57 pm
So Mr. Karl(Or anyone else who can answer this), do you have any new information on the Coda? Do you have any new information that you would be willing to present to the forum/public?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 22, 2016, 01:35:11 am
I have good news! After a final round of tweaking, my mold designer was finally able to send the completed mold design and specs out yesterday, December 20th, to the Connecticut injection molding company that will probably build our tool. We feel very good about the design. No one regrets the painful delays more than I do, but this is a very complex and precise project. At my insistence, we've put way more time into mold design than is customary, and it's now clear that the molds will cost more than the original projections. Why? Well, my prototypes are wonderful. The molded version of Coda needs to look and sound every bit as good. And Coda needs to be tough enough to keep on you! All I can say is that we've done our due diligence and then some.

Now, at last, our project is in the hands of the likely tool builders. They've asked for some time to look over the plans. We've talked about meeting together around December 27th or so to discuss the project again, get updated quotes, etc.  If all goes well, we could be cutting steel soon. One can only hope!  I'll let you know.

I'll also let everyone know when the new Coda webpage and facebook pages are up.   I'm really sorry we couldn't get this done for you guys before Christmas, but now we have something to look forward to in the new year. That's better than just another gift during the holidays, right? Right?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 22, 2016, 07:57:48 am
Thanks for the update Karl.  I am looking forward to seeing the web page, but I haven't done fakebook in years so I won't be seeing that anytime soon. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on December 22, 2016, 10:41:38 am
Anything worth doing, is worth doing right. I'm glad you have stayed true to your vision even though it has extended the production timetable.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on December 24, 2016, 02:44:25 am
The longer the wait, the better Coda keeps getting...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 24, 2016, 02:56:49 am
I am just waiting to pre-order. Apparently Karl don't want my money yet ;) .


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 03, 2017, 11:15:22 am
Happy New Year to all Mountain Ocarina players everywhere.

What I would most like to see rather than a clip or neck loop is a clip on sound reducer (silencer) so that I can play late at night without annoying everyone else.  I have tried the drinking straw silencer idea but it does not work well for me and usually falls out.  How about it, a clip on silencer that does not fall off, allows correct breath pressure for all the notes to sound properly but reduces the sound level to just about audible so that the player can hear but the person in the next room cannot.

D

PS Really excited about the Coda really looking forward to it now I have seen the pictures, news on its progress would always be welcome.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 04, 2017, 07:00:00 am
Have you tired blue painters tape covering about 1/2 the fipple?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on January 04, 2017, 09:30:53 am
Happy New Year to all Mountain Ocarina players everywhere.

What I would most like to see rather than a clip or neck loop is a clip on sound reducer (silencer) so that I can play late at night without annoying everyone else.  I have tried the drinking straw silencer idea but it does not work well for me and usually falls out.  How about it, a clip on silencer that does not fall off, allows correct breath pressure for all the notes to sound properly but reduces the sound level to just about audible so that the player can hear but the person in the next room cannot.

The volume of most fipple flutes, whistles, recorders, ocarinas etc., is controlled to a great degree by the size of the "window", which also affects the voicing (what it sounds like), and the size of the holes.

In the case of a whistle, flute, recorder etc., one can retain pitch of any one hole by making it smaller and repositioning it further up the tube (the other holes may also need to be adjusted to compensate).  In the case of an ocarina, the size of the holes is fixed by the arithmetic involved, so adjusting those is not an option.

So your only option for adjusting the volume on an ocarina is to adjust the size of the "window" ... inevitable this will alter the voicing, so the instrument will sound "different", though it should still be able to play in tune. Optimally the width of the window would be adjusted, including the width of the airway, to retain pitch, but if maintaining absolute tuning isn't critical, a piece of adhesive tape across the window, as suggested by Harp Player, may well suffice.

Thin strips of food-packaging plastic held in place with "poster-putty" is an easily-reversible means of adjusting the width of the window/airway.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES adjust the "blade" in the window - a slightly damaged blade can "kill" an instrument at a stroke and be very difficult to repair, though a small blob of poster putty on the blade may be beneficial in reducing the sound from an instrument, whilst being easily removeable.

YMMV ... good luck :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 04, 2017, 09:47:03 am
Thank you for the very prompt and useful tips, will experiment a bit to see if I can get the volume down to an acceptable level whilst still keeping the notes reasonably in tune.

D

Incidentally are there any other MO players in Kent? (that's the one in the England)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 09, 2017, 02:21:34 pm
I keep coming back to this site looking for more news on the new Coda, it seems to have gone very quiet, I just hope that is the Christmas festivities rather than any problems in the manufacturing process. 

Now have a small stack of songs awaiting my first Coda, maybe I am just not very good at adapting them to fit in the present MO range but I admit to being impatient (actually make that very, very impatient)

So any possibility of an update on progress?


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on January 12, 2017, 12:43:38 pm
Art this point it's all about working out the details of the process of moving from prototype to production. I'm not involved in this but I know it has to be done very cautiously, because mistakes at this stage can be very expensive.

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 12, 2017, 12:56:25 pm
Thank you, I can appreciate the need for caution and great care at this stage, but there must be a heap of us just waiting to get our hands on a Coda and I was hoping that someone who was involved in the process could post a short update every now and then.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on January 12, 2017, 02:29:26 pm
Hi, D102, and all the rest. I'll try to give you an update later today.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 14, 2017, 11:31:25 pm
Thank you, when you can it would be great.  I do appreciate you are a probably incredibly busy at this time and it must be both exciting and nerve-wracking for you trying to bring this very long term project to a successful launch.  Best wishes with it all.  D102

PS my money is ready and waiting the moment you announce pre-orders, your whole philosophy just gives me a lot of confidence in you all. (er that's for two please partner has sussed how good this could be)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 16, 2017, 07:05:30 pm
We are sill waiting on the update.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on January 16, 2017, 08:21:01 pm
Harp Player said, "We are sill waiting on the update." 

You are so right!  An update is long overdue, but I keep thinking every day that tomorrow, or Thursday, or Monday, etc., I will have some concrete progress to share.

As you guys know, after a long, careful process, we turned over the "completed" injection mold designs on December 20th, four weeks ago tomorrow, to the company that we've chosen to build our molds.  (To be fair, Christmas and New Year's happened during those four weeks.) At first, it looked as though we were ready to charge ahead, but after a couple of weeks and that many meetings with the mold makers, they expressed reluctance to move ahead unless we adapted the joint design. (Coda is a complex design composed of 4 parts.) This was a surprise because we had had many meetings with various experts throughout the design process. In fact, prior to turning over the plans, my mold designer had told me at least a dozen times not to worry, and he was the guy recommended to me by the mold makers themselves!

Anyway :), this is a time of frustrated waiting, of intense study of options and joint design, of creative solution seeking, and of respectful, steady prodding toward resolution. On my desk is a plan I've drawn up that might make everyone happy, and I have meetings this week, so I could have concrete progress to share tomorrow, or Thursday, or Monday...   

Will we have to further tweak the plans to accommodate a different type of joint? Will the mold designer persuade the mold makers and the ultrasonic welders that his design is the best and doesn't require changes? Will Jeremy wake from his coma in time to marry Brittany and inherit his great uncle's vast fortune? Stayed tuned for next week's episode of, "As the Mold Turns."

Thanks for being patient. As I'm sure you are, I'm a little frustrated, but steady action, faith, and perseverance keep me from becoming discouraged. We will get this done!  And Coda is worth it. Small, tough, light, nice sound, fluid fingering, two chromatic octaves in your pocket.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 16, 2017, 08:29:28 pm
Thank you for the update Karl it is much appreciated, you will get there, just one step at a time. 

Perhaps you could provide monthly or so updates for all us impatient people out there.  Feel free to make them more often in the event of good news !

Thanks again

D102


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 16, 2017, 09:04:33 pm
Of course, if you are bored and have nothing better to do, some sound sample or more details of the fingering on the Coda might be nice......


D102

sorry, I was sort of joking,
my sense of humour does get me into trouble on occasions.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 17, 2017, 06:50:16 am
Thanks Karl,  I can only imagine the frustration you must have in thinking you have a finished design then run into a snag. You have spent years perfecting your instrument so don't compromise on quality on mold design now that it is down to the wire. I wish I could advise you on what to do but I know nothing about sonic wielding.

Please let us know something when you can, but don't let updates take away from the task at hand.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: mehgcap on February 04, 2017, 01:44:43 pm
Hi all,Having read several pages of this forum, plus watched the video Carl made about upcoming plans and the challenges faced when doing something like this, I can certainly appreciate the behind-the-scenes work and the long wait.

In the video, mention was made of a g that's an octave lower than the current one. I'm wondering if there's an update on that, and if all the work that went (and continues to go) into the Coda will make other new models easier to prototype and then produce? I'd very much enjoy a lower-pitched instrument, so hope that lower g is still on the stove somewhere, even if just the back burner.Finally, an odd question: do we know what the Coda will look like? I know it was shown in the video, but are there pictures anywhere that anyone has seen? I'm very visually impaired, and am actually typing this reply using braille on my iPhone, whose screen is completely off. That's how little I can see. :) If there are images anywhere, would anyone mind describing what we know? I know I'm not anything like good enough at the ocarina to be on the list for the Coda, but I'm very intrigued about how it works, fingers, etc. Any visuals that are out there may explain that, so if someone is bored and wants to type up a quick description, I'd love to read it. Thanks!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 04, 2017, 07:30:10 pm
Some pictures of a prototype have been posted on this thread.  According to Karl the final product may look a little different. I suggest you look at a few more pages of this thread to find the pictures. 

Edit:  Look at pages 10 and 11 for the pictures.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on February 05, 2017, 12:31:09 am
Hi, mehgcap. One of my friends also uses a text reader for the Internet. So, the prototypes of the CODA that we have seen so far are black polycarbonate of some kind, with a white logo on the front that is the word CODA in caps in a rounded font in a white line oval. The O in CODA looks like a circle cut in quarters. The instrument is nearly rectangular with all rounded off edges. It's roughly the length of Karl's hand, so I'd say between 5 to 6 inches, and it's roughly half that in width. It is also at least an inch and a half thick at the base, and it gets at least half an inch thicker by the mouthpiece. If you look at it from the front, the mouthpiece is on the right side of the very top, and it has two air entries, one for each chamber. There are 8 slightly recessed finger spaces on the front, 7 of which are bisected. The lowest right hole seems to be a single hole. This allows both chambers to be played with the same fingering, and just the mouth switching air holes. There are two thumb holes on the back, and an optional belt clip for the back, instead of a neck cord. The quartered circle symbol in white is also on the bottom edge that would face the audience when playing. I hope that helps you enjoy the images Karl provided a little more fully. We're all waiting with baited breath for every single tiny piece of information we can get on these!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: mehgcap on February 05, 2017, 12:42:14 am
Thanks, that's a great description. Bisected finger holes make sense, now that you say it. I have to wonder, after looking at other double ocarinas today, if the Coda will allow for some harmonizing? That is, could you sustain a note in one chamber while playing a melody in the other? That would be really fun.


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 05, 2017, 01:26:59 pm
Thanks, that's a great description. Bisected finger holes make sense, now that you say it. I have to wonder, after looking at other double ocarinas today, if the Coda will allow for some harmonizing? That is, could you sustain a note in one chamber while playing a melody in the other? That would be really fun.
Coda doesn't support harmony playing in the way you describe, at least not without great difficulty. What you can do is play two octaves at once.

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on February 05, 2017, 09:41:17 pm
That sounds interesting Ubizmo.  Can't wait for the sound samples, and how the variety of ways CODA can be played.

Rob W.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: stanof on February 06, 2017, 04:50:59 pm
How will the bisected fingerholes be used?


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 06, 2017, 09:38:31 pm
How will the bisected fingerholes be used?
Exactly like regular tone holes. The fact that they are bisected doesn't affect how you play. That's the brilliant thing about them. You can ignore the fact that they are bisected.

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Jason on February 06, 2017, 09:45:45 pm
Very excited about this! Definitely will pick a couple up. I wonder if there will be a course book for self-study like there is for the original one and if eventually there will be some higher priced ones available made from other materials. In any case, really glad Karl never gave up on this project.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: hoodsmom on February 06, 2017, 11:30:22 pm
Would one of you beta testers pls reassure me  that it'll be OK to play if I have smaller hands (with issues covering the tone holes of something like a large Native American flute)? Really looking forward to the release!


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 07, 2017, 01:03:00 pm
Would one of you beta testers pls reassure me  that it'll be OK to play if I have smaller hands (with issues covering the tone holes of something like a large Native American flute)? Really looking forward to the release!
No worries. This is something Karl worked on for quite some time, tweaking things to keep the tone hole sizes as small as possible for small hands.

Like any instrument, Coda has its own requirements. It's important to keep the fingertips flat on the holes, not arched. But this isn't hard to do. The biggest challenge at the start is chamber switching, but this is quite a bit easier on Coda than it is on other double chamber instruments. You can expect to adapt quickly.

via Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 07, 2017, 08:07:19 pm
Very excited about this! Definitely will pick a couple up. I wonder if there will be a course book for self-study like there is for the original one and if eventually there will be some higher priced ones available made from other materials. In any case, really glad Karl never gave up on this project.

Karl has created a very nice printed book, but it's not a method book in the sense you're asking. It's 50 pages (8.5x11") with charts of standard and alternate fingering, playing tips, some practice drills, and mostly sheet music. The music includes a sampling of standards, such as Amazing Grace, Greensleeves, and Scarborough Fair, but the majority of the pieces are traditional Irish tunes, especially by O'Carolan. These are beautiful melodies, well suited to the ocarina. One of them, Bridget Cruise, can be played on the standard MO, and in fact Karl plays it on the unfinished Mountain Myst CD. But most of these tunes need more range than that. The first tunes in the book are very simple, suitable for beginners, but there's more challenging music in it as well.

Carolan's Welcome is the first melody I want to do for YouTube. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXgFgFnIAmI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXgFgFnIAmI)

Some of the tunes in the book are presented in two or even three alternate keys, which is an excellent practice regimen.

The soprano/descant recorder's standard range is C5 to D7, and sometimes higher, but relatively few pieces need that high D. This means that the great majority of music written and arranged for soprano/descant recorder can be played on Coda (C5 to C7). In addition to the classical and renaissance recorder repertoire, which probably sounds best on recorder anyway, there's quite a lot of pop and folk music arranged for solo or accompanied recorder, so it shouldn't be a problem to find sheet music to play, if you're not keen on what Karl has put in the book.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Jason on February 09, 2017, 04:20:53 am
Thanks for the great info. Super excited to hear it being played and of course to get one (or more!) for myself.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 09, 2017, 07:26:11 am
Ubizmo your youtube link is broken.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on February 09, 2017, 02:46:49 pm
Ubizmo your youtube link is broken.

Thanks. I put in a simple link instead of trying to embed. Seems to work now.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on February 10, 2017, 09:46:32 am
Link worked just fine and I really enjoyed Down by the Salley Gardens along with the pictures of Ireland.  O course not so good for studying technique, but very inspiring.  A great post.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on February 17, 2017, 11:35:20 am
Well, I have checked this site just about every day for the last month since Karl's last bit of news, hoping for some new progress on Coda but again it has gone very quiet.

Any chance of a brief update, just to keep us impatient people up to date? 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on February 18, 2017, 08:20:12 am
Well, I have checked this site just about every day for the last month since Karl's last bit of news, hoping for some new progress on Coda but again it has gone very quiet.

Some of us have been checking "just about every day" for the last 5 years or more ... we've learnt in that time that things will happen when they're meant to happen and not a second sooner  ::)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: K-Ninja on February 19, 2017, 04:03:09 am


Some of us have been checking "just about every day" for the last 5 years or more ... we've learnt in that time that things will happen when they're meant to happen and not a second sooner  ::)
[/quote]

I agree with Kypfer about people checking about almost everyday. But I've noticed that due to the making of this new ocarina Karl is investing all his time in, the other types of ocarinas have kind of been left out. I don't think you can get any other ocarina MO sells other than the polys. And I think they are low as well.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 19, 2017, 06:15:50 am
Right now the only one showing is the polly G.  It has been that way for quite some time.  I think that Karl addressed that in one of his posts on this thread a while back.  I am one of the people that has been checking in every day for several years as well.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on February 19, 2017, 01:27:57 pm
At this point it all comes down to working out details of the manufacturing process.  I've never done anything like this so I can only invasions the headaches.  But for a small business, unlike say Yamaha or Bundy, this is stuff you have to get right the first time. Even the color is constrained. Certain colors will work, others won't.

But the main thing is, unlike most of the past years of development, Coda is a fully finished product. The design decisions have been made and tested. It's fully functional. Now it's all about bringing it to the world. 

via Tapatalk


Title: Re:
Post by: Tuna on February 20, 2017, 10:38:16 am
Now it's all about bringing it to the world. 

Like hatching a dragon egg


Title: Re:
Post by: kypfer on February 20, 2017, 04:29:20 pm
Quote
Now it's all about bringing it to the world. 

Like hatching a dragon egg

I knew a lady who used to breed dragons ... apparently it's not as easy as it sounds!

(bearded dragons, that is ;)


Title: Re:
Post by: Tuna on February 20, 2017, 09:42:49 pm
My point exactly! Even in fantasy novels it usually doesn't happen overnight.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on March 15, 2017, 01:51:52 pm
Anyone have any updates on this little guy? Or-for those who tested prototypes-any sounds samples or use videos? I'm looking forward to the more oval tone holes on the Coda; I feel those are a little more naturally shaped that the round holes on many ocarinas. I'm fascinated to see if/how it changes playing form.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on March 15, 2017, 09:23:17 pm
Once again, I’m grateful to all you guys for your interest, encouragement, and patient support. I don’t mean to leave you hanging.  Since I last posted, I’ve done a lot of research, some prototyping, and a couple of 3D prints in order to address a few concerns that the mold makers had. For instance, we had to redesign Coda’s joints, get my mold designer to institute the changes, etc. 

Five minutes ago, I called to check on the ultrasonic welding expert who is reviewing my latest “finished” design. He hasn’t completed the review yet, but he says everything looks good so far. If (and only if) he approves our “new and improved” joint design this week, then we’ll finally be able to place an order for the molds this week. After I place the order, they have estimated that we should have our first parts in 10 to 12 weeks. We’ve never been closer.  However… caution alert! You faithful followers have heard this type of news before. (How many times?) Let’s expect the best but be prepared if there's some other small issue that they say needs tweaking.

Having just reread all your postings since my last one, I will now address a few questions that came up.  However, in order to keep this post short (and to fool any forum newbies into thinking that I post a lot more frequently than I actually do), I’ll spread my answers to your questions across a few posts.

If you would like to be on the Coda waiting list, please email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on March 15, 2017, 09:27:19 pm
What are Coda’s Dimensions? 

Coda is very pocket-sized and light. It is meant to keep on you, and is designed to be both easy to carry and easy to play.

     --Coda is only 5” long (12.7 cm),

     --2.33” (5.9 cm) at it widest point,
 
     --1.25” (3.175 cm) thick at its thickest point toward the head,

     --and 0.9” (2.29 cm) thick at the tail. 

     --It weighs 2.2 ounces,
 
     --or 2.4 ounces with the clip.

By the way, I love wearing Coda with the optional clip! Coda also has a built-in lanyard hole for wearing on your belt, around your neck, etc.   Coda will be matte black with a gold logo. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on March 15, 2017, 09:32:45 pm
How much will Coda cost?  Those of you who know me know that I worry a lot more about keeping prices affordable than perhaps I should.  Originally, the cost for Coda was going to have to be around $400 each because of the design complexity and labor required.  After testing various production methods over time, we finally committed to injection molding so that Coda would not be a rare, expensive flute that only a relatively few people could afford.

For some time now, I’ve been telling whoever asked me that the price for Coda was going to be just under $100.  Recently, after a lot of deliberation, I decided to lower that price to $49.95.  On the one hand, our profit per unit will be much lower, which can be scary after all the years and expense we’ve put into this so far and the high costs for quality tooling still ahead. On the other hand, I believe in Coda, and I think the lower price will put it within the reach of a lot more people.

Coda will be made entirely within the United States.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on March 15, 2017, 09:33:42 pm
Is low Coda still in my plans?   Yes, low Coda (low G or A) is one of a handful of exciting new products that I hope to bring to the market after Coda is well established.  A cool thing about low Coda is that, like C Coda, it has a surprisingly small, pocket-friendly footprint for its range.
 
Provided Coda is as successful as I believe it will be, prototyping and development should be much faster for future products because profits from Coda will provide the resources needed for projects of this magnitude.  When resources (a.k.a. Pesos, greenbacks, cabbage, dead presidents, etc.) are lacking, it takes a lot more time and sacrifice to inch things along.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on March 15, 2017, 09:34:26 pm
Are you going to pre-sell Coda to finance the molds?  Bringing Coda to the market is a huge investment, and that is true not even counting the tremendous amount of time and money that has gone into it thus far. Originally, we planned to crowdfund Coda through our former customers, but we have changed our minds. Both my wife and I have sensitive consciences, and we realized that we were not comfortable taking your money for a product that still only exists in prototype form.  After all, what if there are unexpected delays with the molds? (Even though that could never happen, right?!) Therefore, we’ve decided to pay for the Coda molds, set up, fixtures, etc., from our own savings. 

If you would like to help make Coda a reality, please email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com to be placed on our waiting list.  The waiting list will help us to hit the ground running when Coda is available.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on March 15, 2017, 09:35:17 pm
Does Mountain Ocarinas still make ocarinas? Yes, uh, well, I mean, sort of, but, uh, not at present…  Okay, here’s the thing. Right now, all of our resources --time, money, and attention-- are focused on bringing Coda to the market. Purchasing the necessary components and building more of our present ocarinas would only delay Coda, and I’m not willing to do that. 

Frankly, I thought we’d have Coda on the market long before our reserve of instruments ran out, but I was wrong. If you tried to purchase one of our instruments and were not able to, I apologize.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on March 16, 2017, 02:34:07 am
That was an awesome update, Karl!! Thank you for all those details. I am amazed and delighted by the price drop, and as someone burned by crowd funding in the past, may I say ALL the respect to you and your wife for planning to bring CODA to market independently. This is so exciting! I also hugely love the idea of a lower tuned one; I vote as low as possible! ;) Good luck on the next steps and actual production. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on March 16, 2017, 06:18:11 am
Karl. I am thrilled to wear about the progress that you are making on the CODA. I am one of the many that have been waiting patently for several years on this new product.  I am concerned that the $50 price is under market value and I wish you would consider having it a little more expensive because you have more than earned it.

That is just my $ .02 on the matter, but it is ultimately your decision.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: K-Ninja on March 17, 2017, 12:55:32 am
I like things that are cheaper to buy, yet good quality. But while I hold that conviction deep in my heart, I have to agree with HarpPlayer somewhat. Maybe bumping the price up a little bit will be beneficial. And considering the time, money, and other forms of investments you have put into making the CODA, you really deserve the right to bump up the price. But I myself would recommend not having the price to be over $60.00, but just an idea. You lead your horse wherever you want to go, my friend.(A little saying I made up). You know what is best for the Mountain Ocarinas Co. and I support you!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on March 17, 2017, 02:49:23 pm
I don't have any experience in setting price points for products, but certain factors are obvious. One of them is: What is the price of the nearest competitor's product? In the case of Coda, this is a tricky question. If you think strictly in terms of ocarinas, the nearest competitor is a plastic double ocarina. I have one of these and in my judgment it's not even close to an actual competitor to Coda, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's likely to be perceived that way. Plastic doubles can be bought in the US for under $50 now, so despite the vast differences between these and Coda, that fact has to be taken into consideration.

Looking at the wider market for low-cost, durable instruments of comparable range, the other main competitor is the plastic soprano recorder. While these are not as easily portable as Coda, nor as easily playable, especially at the higher end of the range, they are nevertheless out there and some pretty good ones can be bought for under $50.

As tempting as it may be to see Coda as in a class by itself, it's important to see it through the eyes of prospective buyers who haven't seen it, played it, or even heard from anyone who has seen and played it. It's therefore important not to place too much of a price barrier in front of these people. Having played a prototype, as well as having a lot of experience playing various low-cost recorders, I can personally testify that Coda is a very different, and much more satisfying, instrument. But new buyers will be skeptical of such claims, and rightfully so. The price needs to be low enough to tempt them to take a chance on a new concept. So even though I think Coda is worth more than $50, I think it makes sense to keep it at around that point, if it's feasible to do so.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on March 18, 2017, 04:25:31 pm
Thank you Karl, for the informative and interesting update, hope the ultrasonic welding guy gives the design a big yes and it can all move forward another step.

My comment on pricing is that a lot of the money on some high-end musical instruments, mobile phones etc is paid for the looks rather than the function so maybe there should be a high-end Coda (e.g. gold-plated, encrusted with gems and personally signed by Karl or perhaps hand decorated with exotic wood veneers)  I would not want one, but then I do not have a high-end mobile phone either.  Just a thought.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on March 19, 2017, 03:03:16 am
ubizmo, I certainly see your point on the price of other doubles out there.  Most beginners wouldn't know the difference between the CODA and the novelty plastic double ocarinas out there, but are those people the target demographic?  I don't think that they are, instead I see the CODA buyer as being someone that is proficient on the Ocarina and are looking for a High Quality extended range instrument. That is why I suggested that CODA is under market value at the $50 price point.

I am looking at if from the perspective of a harmonica player.  You can buy a playable instrument to learn on for under $10, or you can spend well over $100 on some of the real high end Harmonicas.  I am not wealthy, nor do I make money from my playing, but I still need a good quality instrument (and several of them). My harmonicas are $50 each range which don't sound like a big deal until you consider that I carry 21 harmonicas when I play.

Either way I hope that the CODA gets the attention and respect that it deserves from the Ocarina Community, and that Karl has to work 60 hour weeks to meet the demand for his new product.  Well OK, we will let you knock off a little early on Saturday you can go fishing and hunting.


Edited for clarity


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on March 22, 2017, 10:42:33 am
Karl, do you anticipate a limit on the initial order quantity? For that price (too low, IMO) I may as well get several as gifts for my musically-inclined friends and family. But I don't want to hog all the fun toys if there is a limited availability at the outset.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Ric on March 23, 2017, 01:49:58 pm
Am I the only one that thinks CODA looks like a stun gun?

Well, either way, it's certainly a stunning achievement!

Looking forward to rewarding Karl for all his hard work with a few greenbacks.

--------

P.S. - quite disappointed I'll never be able to have one of these in Dymondwood....oh well.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Ric on March 25, 2017, 01:20:33 pm
News Flash!

This just in, as of 9:30am March 24, 2017!

---------------------------

Hi Ric,

I just added you to the list!  

By the way, yesterday, after seemingly endless revisions, everyone has approved the Coda design for production. Thus, my wife Susan and I were pleased to finally hand over a fat check to the mold building team, so the process has begun. They estimate that it will take 10-12 weeks before we have our first parts.

I'll be in touch!

Karl


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on March 27, 2017, 01:01:14 am
I am glad that the design has been finalized and the order placed.  Thanks for the news.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on March 27, 2017, 11:52:22 pm
Oh man I'm so excited.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on May 05, 2017, 03:20:57 am
How goes the mold building process, Karl? Things proceeding apace? Trying SOOO HARD to be patient. ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on May 07, 2017, 07:44:30 am
I think there are a good number of people including myself, trying hard to be patient but would really like an update.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on May 10, 2017, 07:45:47 pm
Hi to you faithful Coda followers. I appreciate you, and I understand how frustrating the slow progress (and my infrequent posts) can be. At times, it's terribly hard for me to be patient also. There are just so many little steps in a project like this -- and a frustrating amount of WAITING (and follow up) whenever the ball is in someone else's court.   

Here's the latest word from the mold makers: "After running the tooling schedule, I am showing the week of June 19th for the first samples."

Exciting, right? However, now it's time to manage everyone's expectations, including my own. 

The first samples that come out of the mold are to test the functionality, cooling, accuracy, etc., of the mold. Ideally, when they first fire up the huge injection molding machine, celestial music will sound, bluebirds will alight on the hopper, and a shaft of golden light will stream through the factory window, illuminating a set of gleaming, perfectly-formed parts as they emerge from the jaws of the gentle giant.  (Sigh!!)

More likely, though, since we have striven to be "steel safe," we'll need to tweak one or more aspects of the molds that produce Coda's four precision parts. Steel safe? Well, it's much easier to remove a little bit of steel from a mold surface to bring it into spec than to try to weld and form a tiny feature onto a mold.  Anyway, tweaking requires disassembling the mold (big hunks of steel that weigh hundreds of pounds) and, uh... tweaking it. Then you reassemble the mold and try again...  Hopefully, there will be nothing major to address since a ton (or more) of careful planning has gone into this so far.

After parts meet with my approval (I'm easy to please, right?;)), then it's time to send portions of the mold out to a company that specializes in texturing mold surfaces and, finally, to another company that heat treats the mold cavities.  Meanwhile, yet another company will be completing the precision horns and fixtures for assembling Coda. So... I'll be attending a lot of meetings, checking progress and quality of a lot of things, and writing a lot of checks. (SIGH!!!!!!)

So, what is a realistic time frame for getting Coda into your hands?  Well, if all goes as planned, we could begin sales at the end of July. Yee-haa! That's what I'm striving for. However, I have enough experience with this type of project to expect unexpected challenges. When they come, you just have to roll up your sleeves and work through them. Thus, I'll also be very pleased if we have Coda on the market sometime in August. 

That's all for now.  Thanks for the kind, patient support. It is encouraging. Also, thanks for the feedback on price. Obviously, I can't always follow everyone's recommendations, but I always read your comments with great interest and learn from them.  Tuna asked if supply would be limited at first.  In theory, no.  Let's see if that is true in practice. Will there ever be a "high-end" version of Coda? Well, if Coda takes off the way we hope it will, then a high-end version is a possibility in the future. Our focus for now, though, is to make an affordable instrument that plays like a high-end one. Tiny, tough, and light, great sound, 2 chromatic octaves, and fluid, intuitive fingering.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on May 11, 2017, 06:42:09 am
Thanks for the update Karl. 

My Birthday is a the end of July so getting to order a CODA would be a nice present to myself.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on May 11, 2017, 07:35:45 pm
Our focus for now, though, is to make an affordable instrument that plays like a high-end one. Tiny, tough, and light, great sound, 2 chromatic octaves, and fluid, intuitive fingering.

You know, even though you just threw that in at the end of your post, it's actually nothing short of amazing that something like this is soon to exist. I know I've talked about this multiple times, but when I started playing the ocarina in 2008, all I really wanted was something like what you've described in these two sentences. I didn't really have it well defined in my mind, but that's what I was after. I quickly realized that it didn't exist, with the exception of the chromatic harmonica, which just isn't my thing. I ended up playing Mountain Ocarinas and tin whistles and don't regret either, but never stopped hoping for something more.

And even though I've played recorders since about 1969 (Is that even possible?), and I think there are some pretty nice inexpensive plastic ones to choose from, the truth is they don't sound that great. The low notes are weak and the high notes are harsh. Decent wooden recorders are very expensive and notoriously delicate. A recorder player who hopes to make it through one of Vivaldi's recorder concertos will probably bring two of them, in order to switch between movements, because you just can't play a good wooden recorder that long before it starts to swell and go off key or off tone.

So even now, in the 21st century, this niche is still vacant. But not for long...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on May 11, 2017, 08:35:30 pm
Karl thanks for reading and responding. And ubizmo, you hit the nail right on the head. This is something that has never been done before and it's amazing that we get to be here before and during the revolution.

When I say revolution, I mean the one that should replace all those plastic recorders in elementary schools with Coda instruments.

No offense to the recorder, as it has been the gold standard among introductory instruments for a long time. But the (sometimes) terrible tone and non-intuitive fingerings make it an almost paradoxical choice for teaching children.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on May 12, 2017, 06:08:06 am
Thanks Karl for the update. This could be what I have been looking for, for many many years.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on May 19, 2017, 04:01:35 pm
Many thanks for the update Karl, I really appreciate you taking the time to provide that detailed explanation of the future process.  I thought once molds were manufactured that would be the end of the process and production could begin.  How wrong can you be?
 
Good luck with it all and hope the end product can reach the UK for the end of the summer.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on June 17, 2017, 04:53:53 pm
I've been hanging around for a long, long time, eagerly reading every little snippet regarding the "Pro" Coda ocarina. Wonderful that it is really happeing. Frosting on the cake would be if Karl or Ubizmo would play the prototype and let us know what it sounds like. Very exciting.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 18, 2017, 12:47:22 am
I would love to hear a sound sample from a prototype.  Or even a pre textured model.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 20, 2017, 08:21:24 pm
Yesterday, my mold makers emailed to say that we should have our first test parts by the end of this week!

Typical Caveat: while this is exciting, there is no way of knowing how much tweaking the molds will require before we're ready to send components off for hardening and then texturing.  Are we seeing light at the end of the tunnel?

As soon as I know more, I'll let you know!







Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on June 21, 2017, 06:43:24 am
Yesterday, my mold makers emailed to say that we should have our first test parts by the end of this week!



Regardless of all caveats that is still great news, and right on schedule, thanks for the update and here is hoping not much tweaking is not needed.






Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on June 21, 2017, 10:22:16 am
It might be cool to record and upload a sound sample from the prototype/mold test pieces for the sake of comparison with subsequent iterations if it requires "tweaking".


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 24, 2017, 07:02:05 am
Sound samples please.

This is awesome news even if you don't give us a sound sample.

Yesterday, my mold makers emailed to say that we should have our first test parts by the end of this week!

Typical Caveat: while this is exciting, there is no way of knowing how much tweaking the molds will require before we're ready to send components off for hardening and then texturing.  Are we seeing light at the end of the tunnel?

As soon as I know more, I'll let you know!








Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 26, 2017, 06:47:32 pm
It turns out that tomorrow (Tuesday, 6/27/17) is the big day to see our first samples. I don't know what to expect, but I should know more soon. Prayers are appreciated. We've gone way out on a limb to get to this point...

I hear you about the sound samples. I decided some weeks ago to make my first Coda videos with a Coda from our new molds, to let you see and hear exactly what you'd be buying. If the process from this point forward seems like it will move too slowly, I'll reconsider that.  Ah, but this has been a strange year for traveling: three major trips in about the last month (Georgia, Canada, Texas), and we have 2 more scheduled in the next month or so (Vermont, Florida). Just between you and me, it's a bit too much! 


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on June 27, 2017, 01:13:53 pm
With all the work that has gone into this project there's a good chance the samples will sound just right. It's good to be optimistic!

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 27, 2017, 05:58:29 pm
I picked up 6 sets of Coda parts from the molder today, and they look great! I am very pleased. Coda's design is quite complex, so there was always a possibility of some warpage, despite our months of due diligence. For instance, we spent a lot of time tweaking & redesigning one part in particular that seemed at risk of shrinking in on itself, warping, or otherwise deforming. Thankfully, all the parts came out flat and properly formed, just as they should.

Now I have to measure all the parts and features carefully, examine everything under heavy magnification, and assembly a few sets to check sound and tuning.  I really won't know how much work we have still ahead until I have done that.

But so far, so good! I'll let you know how things go.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on June 27, 2017, 10:12:09 pm
I am glad that things look good so far.  I know you are excited and a bit nervous at the same time. I just hope  that the molds don't need tweaked so I can get my hands on a CODA sooner.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 28, 2017, 03:47:24 am
Quote
I know you are excited and a bit nervous at the same time.
 That's it, exactly.

Well, I glued together my first set of molded Coda parts. My wife heard me play and said, "Wow, that sounds great; it doesn't sound like it needs tweaking."  I agree. The sound is nice, and the tuning seems quite good also.  But it's late.  I'll leave further evaluation of this Coda and the other parts until tomorrow. Again, so far, so good!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on June 28, 2017, 07:22:42 am
That is brilliant news, thank you for taking the time to post the update.  Looking forward to hearing the sound samples but only if that does not stop you doing something more important.   


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on June 28, 2017, 10:13:51 am
Whereabouts in Florida are you headed, Karl?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Ric on June 30, 2017, 04:24:55 pm
Quote
Well, I glued together my first set of molded Coda parts. My wife heard me play and said, "Wow, that sounds great; it doesn't sound like it needs tweaking."  I agree. The sound is nice, and the tuning seems quite good also.

Fantastic news!  Congratulations Karl!

While I'm as excited as the next guy, don't let our impatience rush the process.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on June 30, 2017, 09:00:07 pm
D102, right now, Ubizmo (who just received his latest Coda today) and I are trying to decide if there are any little tuning tweaks to make. As I mentioned, the tuning is quite good, but
--before the tool steel is hardened-- now is the time to make little changes if we find that any are needed. After that, I'll make sound samples.

Tuna, we'll be heading to Orlando, i.e., Disney. My wonderful 24-year-old autistic son, our big, affectionate toddler, loves the magic of Disney, so we do too!

Ric, you said, "While I'm as excited as the next guy, don't let our impatience rush the process." Hmmm, I'm trying to parse your words. Do you mean that or are you just using reverse psychology to rush us? :)

By the way, Coda weighs just 2.5 ounces, the same weight as our polycarbonate C ocarina. However, instead of playing a chromatic octave and a third, coda plays a full two chromatic octaves (plus a low B played by tilting the instrument down). For its range, Coda has an amazingly compact, pocket-friendly footprint.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 01, 2017, 12:12:00 pm
I'm sure you guys will have a blast at Disney. I live in SW Florida, between Tampa and Naples.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on July 04, 2017, 03:21:27 pm
Thanks for the updates! I recently discovered I could sing from b to c to c to c easier than the slightly higher bass voice, so all the tunes I've been composing lately by singing will fit! I'm sure it will sound relatively louder on the low notes and better overall than my voice. (I'm not the greatest singer and I find the breath control on MOs easier) I've been practicing on my C ocarina quite a bit too.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on July 04, 2017, 06:17:08 pm
Tuning an ocarina is a shortcut to the madhouse. The ocarina--any ocarina--is an inherently unstable instrument, moreso than maybe any other wind instrument, I think. Playing to a meter, the pitch can and does vary a lot from one half second to the next. But playing to a meter is a very unsatisfied way to play. I found a better approach was to use backing tracks in specific keys and play along with them, just diatonic and pentatonic scales. Doing that I could get a sense of whether had to struggle to stay in key.

Without a backing track it's too easy to let the pitch drift a bit, even when playing through a song.

Karl also noted that the temperature affects the pitch quite a bit. This is true of most instruments but given the nature of the ocarina it's even more important to be aware of it.


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on July 05, 2017, 04:18:44 am
Hmm... May be I just think I'm more on pitch with the oc. I'll have to record myself...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 06, 2017, 04:24:08 pm
Hmm... May be I just think I'm more on pitch with the oc. I'll have to record myself...

This is why the process of tuning an instrument is so challenging. Even though the tuner gives an "objective" measure of pitch, the playing situation is utterly artificial. In real music--on any non-fixed-pitch instrument, not just ocarina--the pitch of a given note will vary.  The player will vary it unconsciously or consciously, to produce certain effects. So when Karl has to decide on the final tuning of Coda, he has to make decisions about "normal" breath pressure and volume, etc. But these are incredibly hard decisions to make, which is why he asked me to help. It's just too easy to get lost in the process. Since I had played two earlier prototypes of Coda, I had some kind of baseline to use for making judgments. Those earlier prototypes were different in various ways but close enough that I knew what to expect.

In the end, I find this final molded version of Coda to be easy to play in tune with actual recorded music, and that's what matters. The backing tracks I mentioned were actually intended for practicing various scales and patterns for improvisation, but they work very well for checking Coda's intonation. Even just playing long tones to the backing tracks was helpful.

I should add that compared to earlier prototypes, this final version solved a few minor problems, such as one or two notes that sounded less robust compared to surrounding notes. I might not even have noticed it but Karl is a perfectionist and once he pointed it out to me I could hear it, but he was able to fix it in the final design. I think it's fair to say that there is no detail of Coda, either musical or physical/structural, that has not been carefully studied and experimentally determined. Coda doesn't look like anything else that's out there, but there's a reason for every detail of it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 08, 2017, 04:11:01 pm
So has anything changed much from the last proto type you have played ?


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 08, 2017, 10:47:40 pm
So has anything changed much from the last proto type you have played ?
The last prototype is about a year older. The difference between then and now is not large. Most of that time was about the transition from design to production, and all of the issues involved in that--most of which are above my pay grade.

But, to answer your question, there have been some noticeable improvements. First, the low D on the early prototype was a bit fuzzy sounding, compared to surrounding notes. It didn't bother me too much but it drove Karl crazy. That is completely fixed in the pre-production version I now have.

Second, Karl changed the "breath slope" across the chambers. Keep in mind there's a minor third overlap between the two chambers, so B, C, C#, and D can be played on either. On the earlier prototype, C, C#, and especially D need quite a bit of breath support to play in tune. On the pre-production version the transition is smoother.

Third, the top notes on the upper chamber are cleaner. It's one of those things I didn't notice until I heard the improvement.

There's a noticeable difference in weight. The new one is lighter. This doesn't affect playing much, if at all, but it does affect the comfort of caring it.



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 11, 2017, 02:46:32 am
Thanks for all you have done ubizmo. I think I started playing the MO in the late spring of 2008. I followed your progress over the years and you have been a great help. Thanks!!!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 12, 2017, 05:31:43 pm
Quote
Thanks for all you have done ubizmo.
Yes, Ubizmo, thank you!  You have been a faithful friend, beta tester, and sounding board throughout. Your generous and thoughtful feedback, your skills as a musician, your wide scope of experience in various musical settings (and with various musical instruments), and your ability to clearly express your ideas have been a needed source of enlightenment and encouragement.

And while I am in "thank you mode," I wouldn't feel right if I didn't mention my wife Susan. Birthing Coda has required a lot of sacrifice and perseverance, and Susan has been incredibly patient, encouraging, and supportive, helping me, again and again, to find a way forward each time we ran into a roadblock.

And, of course, all of you who have been expressing interest in pro-range Coda --some for a long, long time now-- have helped us to persevere. 

But, there is still work to be done. Right now, our molder is busy trying to source dark cobalt blue colorant to run a few more Coda test parts. The first mold samples came out great --very precise-- but they ran them in clear. Running Coda in darker colors will help us to decide whether to add additional texturing to the mold cavities or not. Since texturing is an additional step, I'm hoping it won't be required.

So, the proposed launch color for Coda is (you'll never guess!) dark, slightly translucent Cobalt Blue.  The Coda logo will be a contrasting gold. Any reactions? (To see the look, search something like "dark cobalt blue glass.") A fallback standard color could be black with the contrasting gold logo. Over time, we can run different colors and combinations of color.  As some of you might have guessed, my own taste in colors runs toward classy, attractive, and non-flashy because, to me, Coda is a serious musical instrument rather than a toy. But I know many of you favor brighter colors.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 12, 2017, 08:51:15 pm
I too prefer classy over flashy. Dark cobalt blue qualifies, but I'm not sure a big gold logo will.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on July 12, 2017, 10:30:09 pm
The blue sounds good to me as well.  However,  I think the gold lettering should be a good contrasting color maybe a white.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 13, 2017, 02:29:04 am
Thanks for the color feedback so far. 
Quote
Dark cobalt blue qualifies, but I'm not sure a big gold logo will.
  In earlier prototypes, we put both a black Coda logo on a white Coda and a white logo on a black Coda. Universally, people liked the tasteful look of the contrasting logo color, which really added some beauty and interest to the design.  In mock-ups, gold looks really good. However, if it isn't as appealing in real life, we'd likely go with a silver or white logo.

Here are a couple of things that I'm not sure I've mentioned in earlier posts. Coda is more stable to hold than most ocarinas. As a result, I've enjoyed some slow, relaxing hikes through the woods, playing Coda as I go. Beautiful! And the extra range not only allows me to play a much wider repertoire, but it also makes it easier to play along with other musicians or with recordings. For instance, my autistic son David is always playing music on his ipad, the computer, or a video: usually Sesame Street songs, Raffi, youtube songs for kids, etc. I like to play along at times.  The problem in the past was that, even though most of those songs fit within the range of our poly Gs or Cs, sometimes the key was a little too high or too low to play along. With Coda's wider range, it's much easier to play in the same key as the recording.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 13, 2017, 02:59:22 am
I like the idea of a white Coda with black logo, but Cobalt blue sounds awesome. If the Coda logo is molded into the instrument, I think no contrasting color at all would be very subtle and classy, too.

Eagerly awaiting more updates…


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 13, 2017, 07:16:10 am
Dark non flashy colors sounds good to me.  I don't want some neon thing that looks like a kids toy.

Any chance of a sound sample ?  Maybe even a couple of tunes?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 13, 2017, 08:35:25 am
Blue and yellow (or gold) is a classic colour combination that works well in most situations, classy with a bit of contrast so sounds good.  For some reason, I was expecting the launch to be with black the same as the existing models.  I would be very happy with either.  I agree with Harp Player dark non-flashy colours is the best option.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 13, 2017, 10:12:25 am
I think you're spot on with the color choice.
It's a concert quality instrument, and it will be much easier to promote it as such with a dark, reserved color scheme.

Typically black, white and gold are the highest formality (think: tuxedo, shirt and studs) with silver as an acceptable alternative to gold.
Navy blue and gold are a close second, and in some cases tuxedos are made to be a very dark navy blue instead of black. To the human eye, a navy tux appears "blacker than black" or "deeper than black" under lamp light.

All in all, solid color choice for your first run. If other people want neon zebra print ocarinas, well those can come later I suppose. =)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 13, 2017, 03:40:29 pm
If the Coda logo is molded into the instrument, I think no contrasting color at all would be very subtle and classy, too.

That would be my choice. The problem I had with "big gold logo" wasn't so much the color as the tackiness of any big logo. To be honest, I don't think the Coda logo (the bigger one, below) looks very professional; but even if it did, how many high-end instruments sport a big-ass logo?

(http://www.ocarinaboard.com/images3/coda03.jpg)

Gah, my first posts are so negative. I'm very interested in the Coda, though, or I wouldn't have been following this thread for months!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 13, 2017, 09:20:01 pm
Thanks to all for the color feedback.

Sinocelt, you have made a good argument against a gold logo, which I might end up agreeing with at some point. For now, though, I’d like to present an alternate view, keeping in mind that matters of taste are always matters of opinion.

(Just for the record, Coda’s look has been improved a bit since that picture of a previous prototype. Unfortunately, they ran the first mold samples in clear, without the logo, so I’ve chosen not to include pictures yet. As soon as I have updated pics, you will too! Also, unless you are reading this forum on your phone, chances are that Coda looks a lot bigger on your computer screen than it does in person.)

So, here are a few of my thoughts about the logo.

First of all, since coloring the logo is a secondary operation, we could easily choose to leave it uncolored. Thus, we could offer either a colored or uncolored logo as an option or a special request. One way or another, we’ll make sure you can get a Coda without a colored logo.

With that said, I’ve had the opportunity to show Coda prototypes to a good number of people in real life situations: informal gatherings, formal meetings, etc. When I do, I’m careful not to taint individual views by expressing my own opinion first. Also, to ensure that groups of people are not influenced by group pressure, I ask everyone to make a firm decision between option A or B before anyone is permitted to express an opinion out loud.

Here is a synopsis of my findings.  Those interviewed so far, people who have seen Coda in person, prefer Coda with a contrasting color logo rather than without it. They think it looks better with the logo—more interesting. What is more, I like it better. Of course, a majority doesn’t mean everybody. I’ll be most interested in what you guys think, the people who actually plunk down hard-earned money to buy Coda.

But there is something more important about a logo. As I notice things in my environment, logos are everywhere, even on (or especially on) high-end devices such as Apple products, high-end cameras, high-end tuners, microscopes, audio recorders, microphones, etc. Quality musical instruments and motor vehicles (even Mercedes and Maserati) have prominent logos. For example, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steinway_%26_Sons_logo.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steinway_%26_Sons_logo.jpg) 

There is a reason for this. Word of mouth! We tend to trust what users of a product think about a company more than what a company says about itself. Let’s say that someone hears you play Coda in the park. They realize that this is what they have been looking for without realizing it. How can they find one? A logo can tell them at a glance how to find it on the web. Many years ago, Apple took this word of mouth so seriously that they decided to put their laptop logos on upside down when the laptop was closed. Why? That way, the logo would be right side up to anyone at the coffee shop who spied you happily using your Apple laptop in the open position.

While it’s true that Coda is the flute that I have personally always wanted but could not buy anywhere, the whole idea of the injection molds was to make Coda available and affordable to more people. And I wouldn’t have felt right investing years of labor and tons of money if I didn’t believe there was a chance I could someday repay my family for these sacrifices. Making Coda easy to identify and to find is an important way to increase its chances of success. Provided that the logo is tasteful, it is my hope that Coda lovers will be proud of the logo. Time will tell.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 14, 2017, 01:22:59 am
It is perfectly fine for performing musicians to sport brand logos on their instruments. And in many cases it even becomes part of their identity, like Eric Clapton with his stratocaster, or Randy Rhoads and his flying V. In these cases the overt branding definitely helps sell more product to people who want to be just like their musical mentors. When it pays to get recognized, striking contrast like blue and gold would be a huge boon.

On the level of Symphony Orchestra and the like, instruments tend to take a more subdued approach to visible branding. A big logo could be perceived as garish or tacky in those settings. A black-on-black model might be just right for very formal performances though.

I'm not against the inclusion of an eye-catching logo for the early release models. But I believe the Coda is versatile enough to perform music at either end of the formal spectrum, so it may be a good idea to offer versions with less prominent branding at some point.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on July 15, 2017, 01:02:00 am
I would prefer black with a non-colored (black) logo. It would look very formal and would not clash with any specific color. However, I would definitely not mind a silver logo on black, which would lead to better brand recognition. Gold might clash with certain color combinations, but silver and black aren't "colors" in a certain sense, and they would not. A white on black logo might be a little too much contrast for me.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on July 15, 2017, 01:52:34 am
Thinking a non-colored logo is my personal preference, but can live with a silver/white one. 

Getting closer here, aren't we?  Well, a little longer certainly is OK...just glad to see it this close.

Thanks to all for that hard work and patience, to everybody in the production of this unique instrument!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on July 15, 2017, 04:34:54 am
I'm just eagerly awaiting sound samples.

Rob W.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 15, 2017, 12:12:29 pm
Companies want their logos to be very visible. Customers seldom do, though, unless the brand is some sort of status symbol, as is the case with Apple's and Nike's — which are, should I add, two of the best logos ever designed.

When I buy clothes, I go out of my way to choose them without any visible logo. My T-shirt doesn't have a logo; my jeans don't have a visible logo (it's hidden by the T-shirt); and my shoes only have a very small logo on the back of the heel. Does it mean I won't buy the Coda if it sports a big-ass logo? No, I will buy it, because there won't be anything like it (unlike T-shirts and jeans and shoes, for which there's a lot of choice; and clothes are more about appearance than are musical instruments, anyway). Nevertheless, I do appreciate your willingness to offer an uncolored logo as option or special request.


Let’s say that someone hears you play Coda in the park. They realize that this is what they have been looking for without realizing it. How can they find one? A logo can tell them at a glance how to find it on the web.

An ocarina isn't a piano. To see the logo on the Coda, one would have to ask to see the instrument up close, in which case the owner will mention the name anyway.


Provided that the logo is tasteful, it is my hope that Coda lovers will be proud of the logo. Time will tell.

Time might. But I did design websites, including for Microsoft, and one logo, for a microphone company, and as I said, I don't think the Coda logo looks very professional. Of course, Apple and Nike must each have spent more on logo design (and redesign) than you have spent on the Coda itself!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 15, 2017, 02:21:12 pm
I hear you guys about the sound samples. Let's see, it is now Saturday, 7/15/17.  Since we now have quality molded parts (even though there are still aspects to finish up), I hereby commit to posting a series of sound samples on or before next Saturday. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

I thought about waiting on the sound samples until I could post videos. That way I could show you Coda's updated look, but it will be a little while yet before we have those instruments to show.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 15, 2017, 03:20:58 pm
That's a very kind offer, considering everything else you must be committed to at the moment.    Look forward to hearing them, possibly even some new pictures as well ?
Have a  not too pressured week.  :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 16, 2017, 04:48:05 pm
Since we now have quality molded parts (even though there are still aspects to finish up), I hereby commit to posting a series of sound samples

Kind ...

on or before next Saturday. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

... and cruel.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on July 17, 2017, 10:26:48 pm
Yay! Sound samples coming soon!

I hope there is a non-colored logo black version, and I agree that the logo would be hard to see from a distance regardless.

I need to start notating my compositions; I have a medley that I've been too lazy to notate and a couple of tunes suitable for the coda that are likewise not notated.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 18, 2017, 03:49:32 am
 Yay!!!  I'm ready for some video and audio candy.  Also I'm ready to start studying the  manual  so I can hit the ground running when I get the ocarina.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 18, 2017, 09:18:50 am
Yay!!!  I'm ready for some video and audio candy.  Also I'm ready to start studying the  manual  so I can hit the ground running when I get the ocarina.


Have I missed the manual somehow or was this just a wish for it to be put up on the website?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 18, 2017, 02:04:23 pm
Just a wish and planted idea.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 18, 2017, 03:12:57 pm
The first ocarinas I ever bought was Mountain Ocarinas.  Then last year I bought a transverse triple ocarina.
 Which most people don't recommend you start out on  but I have had no trouble learning on. But it took a while to get used to the position on my wrist especially my left wrist. That is another thing I like about in-line ocarinas.  The other problem I have with the plastic transverse triple is condensation in the fipple  affecting the sound sometimes and I have to blow it out. Weather  conditions can  affect that a lot.  I think one reason that  it affects this particular instrument  so much is the Windway is rather skinny  and the material is non-porous.
But  for the most part I've really enjoyed playing it.  So I've been waiting for this  two octave  Mountain ocarina for a very long time almost 10 years  and I want to hit the ground running  to make up for lost time.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 18, 2017, 03:52:02 pm
Hi, Windjammer, correct me if I'm wrong. By manual, I think you are referring to the Coda book.  Here is a short description. Forgive any repetition from earlier posts, which I provide to be helpful.

The Coda book is on heavy-weight quality paper and has fifty-one 8.5" x 11" pages.  It has two pages of tips, the fingering charts, and 68 songs, which are presented following a certain method. With the exception of the first two songs (the ubiquitous Hot Cross Buns and Mary Had a Little Lamb), all were chosen for their beauty as well as for teaching purposes. As most of you know, Coda is essentially a two-octave chromatic instrument: C5 to C7. (However, using a special technique that you may or may not embrace, you can easily play B4, and, in certain contexts, even Bb4 or A4.) Something that makes Coda intuitive to play is that the C major scale can be fingered exactly the same for the upper and lower octaves. (I say, can be because there are four overlapping notes --middle B, C, C#, and D-- which make it much easier to play challenging pieces.) The Coda book begins by presenting a number of easier songs that you first play in just the lower octave. Then, using exactly the same fingerings, you play the songs in the upper octave.  Gradually, the book moves you into playing both octaves together. It also provides some scale practice and gradual introduction of all the sharps and flats. For extra practice and challenge, many songs are presented in two, three, or even four keys. Finally, the bulk of the book is filled with beautiful music intended to provide you with a nice starting repertoire, many hours of enjoyment, and lots of songs to practice to get you used to Coda's two-octave tonal range.

The Coda book was important to me because I wanted to help you master your new instrument more systematically and quickly. If you love the music I've provided, you'll have plenty to practice for a long time. If not, the book is a coherent way to get your feet wet before you move on to music more in keeping with your own tastes and interests.

Alas, since the Coda book provides guided practice playing Coda instead reading about Coda, having the book ahead of time wouldn't be of any help. To address challenges or questions about playing coda, I plan to make lots of short, helpful videos with tips and suggested techniques. I've asked Ubizmo, and he has offered to make videos also.

Finally, the Coda book will only be helpful to those who already read music to some extent. To help raw beginners, I hope to provide a free video adaptation of our Learning to Play curriculum, expanding its scope to include Coda's wider range.  


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on July 18, 2017, 05:06:52 pm
Thanks for the update!

Is it possible to fipple bend both chambers at once and in tune with each other, like playing B4 and B5 at the same time? If so, what about B flat and A?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 18, 2017, 06:12:44 pm
Calculus, what you have described is not possible on Coda. Shading the window (or voicing) with your lower lip to obtain extra low notes only works on Coda's lower chamber. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 18, 2017, 07:15:07 pm
Hi, Windjammer, correct me if I'm wrong. By manual, I think you are referring to the Coda book.  Here is a short description. Forgive any repetition from earlier posts, which I provide to be helpful.

The Coda book is on heavy-weight quality paper and has fifty-one 8.5" x 11" pages.  It has two pages of tips, the fingering charts, and 68 songs, which are presented following a certain method. With the exception of the first two songs (the ubiquitous Hot Cross Buns and Mary Had a Little Lamb), all were chosen for their beauty as well as for teaching purposes. As most of you know, Coda is essentially a two-octave chromatic instrument: C5 to C7. (However, using a special technique that you may or may not embrace, you can easily play B4, and, in certain contexts, even Bb4 or A4.) Something that makes Coda intuitive to play is that the C major scale can be fingered exactly the same for the upper and lower octaves. (I say, can be because there are four overlapping notes --middle B, C, C#, and D-- which make it much easier to play challenging pieces.) The Coda book begins by presenting a number of easier songs that you first play in just the lower octave. Then, using exactly the same fingerings, you play the songs in the upper octave.  Gradually, the book moves you into playing both octaves together. It also provides some scale practice and gradual introduction of all the sharps and flats. For extra practice and challenge, many songs are presented in two, three, or even four keys. Finally, the bulk of the book is filled with beautiful music intended to provide you with a nice starting repertoire, many hours of enjoyment, and lots of songs to practice to get you used to Coda's two-octave tonal range.

The Coda book was important to me because I wanted to help you master your new instrument more systematically and quickly. If you love the music I've provided, you'll have plenty to practice for a long time. If not, the book is a coherent way to get your feet wet before you move on to music more in keeping with your own tastes and interests.

Alas, since the Coda book provides guided practice playing Coda instead reading about Coda, having the book ahead of time wouldn't be of any help. To address challenges or questions about playing coda, I plan to make lots of short, helpful videos with tips and suggested techniques. I've asked Ubizmo, and he has offered to make videos also.

Finally, the Coda book will only be helpful to those who already read music to some extent. To help raw beginners, I hope to provide a free video adaptation of our Learning to Play curriculum, expanding its scope to include Coda's wider range.  

That sounds brilliant, but for those of us not in the USA and subject to expensive, slow delivery and customs charges, could you consider also making it available for download?     Might you also like to give us an idea on the price?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 18, 2017, 08:04:27 pm
Quote
That sounds brilliant, but for those of us not in the USA and subject to expensive, slow delivery and customs charges, could you consider also making it available for download?     Might you also like to give us an idea on the price?
 
Good question. My original plan was to include the book with Coda at no cost because I believe it's in the customer's best interest to have the book, and most people would forgo it if they had to pay for it.  Also, I find an actual music book, one that I can hold in my hands, to be more useful than a downloadable PDF.

But then we decided to lower the cost for Coda--by a lot. Is it still viable to include the book for free? I think so, but I'm not 100 percent sure because some of our costs are still tentative. At the very least, we'll include access to a downloadable PDF with Coda, and we'll make the hard copy version available at a very reasonable cost. With that said, our plan is still to include a hard copy of the book at no cost, but I'm obviously hedging a bit to avoid misleading anyone in case we have to change our minds.

Now, Susan (my beloved wife and shipping manager) says that the book's weight will not affect international shipping costs because Coda only weighs 2.5 ounces, and the book only weighs 5.3 ounces. Also, we have been researching shipping alternatives for international packages in hopes to make it cheaper.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 18, 2017, 08:43:37 pm
When it comes to shipping, size tends to matter more than weight. I sometimes wonder if you have to ship bricks for the real weight to matter; most often, you have to pay for an "equivalent weight" based on package size, and then you learn that your 100-g package's "equivalent weight" is 500 g or more.  ::)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 18, 2017, 09:07:19 pm
If you can manage to include the book (even at the expense of raising the purchase price of the Coda a little) and provide access to a PDF file for when I cannot find the book or am away from home that would be perfect in my opinion.  I wish your beloved the very best of luck unravelling the complexities of international shipping.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 18, 2017, 09:27:41 pm
That sounds like what I was talking about. Looking forward to the videos also. Thanks Karl !


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on July 18, 2017, 11:28:59 pm
The Coda book has some nice music, including an assortment of O'Carolan tunes. The format of the printed book is very pleasing too.

As with any instrument, there's a learning curve. The chamber overlap takes time to take full advantage of. The book's inclusion of tunes in two or more keys really helps with this. In fact, as a general practice discipline I find it useful to try to play any new music I learn in more than one key, if range permits--including at least one "hard" key, like F# major.

The Coda book mostly sticks to the standard folk keys: C, D, F, and G.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 19, 2017, 06:09:16 pm
So the book is complete or still being developed?


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on July 20, 2017, 01:51:36 am
It's pretty much complete, unless Karl decides to make some last-minute changes.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 20, 2017, 03:22:45 am
I completed and printed the first 25 copies of the Coda book sometime in 2016. (I thought Coda would be on the market much sooner: the transition to injection molds has been more complex and challenging than expected.)  Since a good bit of time has passed since I originally wrote the tips, I plan to make some small changes, but that is a quick work because the book is in a digital format.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 20, 2017, 07:13:08 am
I was thinking about you trying to decide on sending the book or not. Why not send a few pages of the basics of getting started and a couple of the early songs, then send the CODA customer an email with a link to the PDF of the full book?  It is just a suggestion, that way if I want to print out a song I can, or I can just look at in digital format.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 20, 2017, 12:25:17 pm
   I have to say Karl you got me chomping at the bit. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I just want to read something ,  Watch something or listen to something that has to do with coda  to keep me occupied while I wait for coda to get into my hand .  :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on July 21, 2017, 01:01:00 pm
I hear you guys about the sound samples. Let's see, it is now Saturday, 7/15/17.  Since we now have quality molded parts (even though there are still aspects to finish up), I hereby commit to posting a series of sound samples on or before next Saturday. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

I thought about waiting on the sound samples until I could post videos. That way I could show you Coda's updated look, but it will be a little while yet before we have those instruments to show.


Tick, tock, tick, tock...it is Friday  ::) No pressure  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 21, 2017, 03:14:53 pm
I have got to leave for a while. A watched kettle never boils. I need to keep my mind on other things. That way when I come back in a few weeks I can see the progress that was made.  ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 22, 2017, 11:18:28 pm
It's Saturday evening and I still don't see any sound sample links  :( .


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 23, 2017, 04:15:05 am
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVVEtjVUMxSlE1RkU (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVVEtjVUMxSlE1RkU)

Okay, it 10 past Midnight on Saturday night, so I better slap up some sound samples. I'm not that technically savvy, so hopefully this link to google drive will work for you guys, at least temporarily. Frankly, I'm not real happy with these mediocre recordings, but I forced myself to post them because of my promise. I'll replace them with more and better recordings after I get some audio things figured out. Not having recorded in a long time, I had to set up a recording area in our bedroom, which I'm still tweaking.   I think there may be some repeats, but I'm done with it for tonight!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 23, 2017, 06:31:13 am
The link worked fine for me, quality of recordings may not be the best but you have kept your promise and we all get to hear our first Coda sounds.

Thank you.

Of course, now I am even more impatient to get my hands on one.    :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on July 23, 2017, 06:43:47 am
I love it! The high notes don't sound much if any louder than the low notes!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on July 23, 2017, 11:27:20 am
 Sounds wonderful. Thank you, Karl.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 23, 2017, 12:29:13 pm
That sounds great. Maybe it's just the recording (or my own awful playing) but Karl's ornamentation with the Coda sounds even better to me than the current generation of poly ocarinas. There seems to be a slight mellowing of the tone that gives it even more life, without sounding "breathy" as is the case with flutes like the shakuhachi.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 23, 2017, 01:53:26 pm
Thank you for the samples. It all sounds very promising.

(Note: the microphone used can alter the sound quite a bit. Too many microphones include a bump in the highs to add "presence" in a mix; that's not always ideal.)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 23, 2017, 05:48:11 pm
Thank you very much Karl.  The recordings sound good to me and I love the fact that the tuning is much flatter than most Ocarinas. Now I want one even more.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Llisas on July 23, 2017, 06:20:01 pm
Thanks a lot for those samples Karl! I was expecting just one short sample, it was nice to hear different songs using the range of the Coda.

I know how hard it is to make a good recording of the ocarina, it's hard to make justice to the sound you hear live. And in this case I'm sure you weren't going to be satisfied with the recording result, so thanks again for posting it even if you weren't convinced.

Now I'm even more excited about having a Coda, from the samples I loved the fact that it's so well balanced, it feels like what's supposed to be: just one instrument with extended range, and not two instruments glued together. I'm very interested in watching how the fingering works and how intuitive is the playing, I'm pretty sure that's one of the main points you worked on.

With all the information and progress there's been so far, do you have a new date to expect for its release? Maybe at the end of August/ beggining of September?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 23, 2017, 11:41:32 pm
You see I leave for just a little while and boom , there it is.(sound samples) :D Thanks Karl.
So what is left to do? Texture and harden the molds? How many molds did you make and how big are they?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 24, 2017, 01:14:40 pm
 I just thought of another color for the Coda logo. Now that I know that it's dark blue. I  Believe that it will look awesome.  (  A light sky blue ) .





Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 24, 2017, 06:50:02 pm
Thanks to you all for taking the time to listen to and comment on the recordings.  Now that things are not last minute, I'm going to try to improve my recording technique this week (mic placement, etc.) so I can post some more.

Of course, any thanks (or blame) for the recordings goes to Windjammer, who said,
Quote
I have got to leave for a while. A watched kettle never boils. I need to keep my mind on other things. That way when I come back in a few weeks I can see the progress that was made.
and then
Quote
You see I leave for just a little while and boom, there it is.(sound samples) ;)
The very moment that you stopped watching the forum, I felt a strange, psychic urge to dust off my audio recorder and get to work. But, um, didn't you say you'd be away for a few weeks? It looks like you only made it two days.:)

You asked about the mold. It is one mold, but it has four cavities. Its dimensions are 16"L x 18"W x 14"H, and it weighs around 900 lbs. They run it in a huge machine that is around 20 feet long.

Release date? This is tough to answer, but I'll do my best. Anyone who is easily bored should skip the rest of this post.

We got our first samples from the new mold --the instrument you heard in the sound samples-- a month ago, on June 27th. Unfortunately, though I am not sure why, they ran the first samples with a clear resin. I say "unfortunately" because, although the clear parts look great, we can't tell whether knit lines will be a cosmetic problem, even under a powerful microscope. In order to know if the knit lines are going to be a problem, we have to run another set of samples in black and/or dark cobalt blue. I'm told that we'll be able to do run those samples sometime in the next two weeks. (Also, as soon as we have dark parts, I'll also be able to post videos and pictures.)

What are knit lines (aka, weld lines)? They form when a current of molten plastic splits to flow around, say, a tonehole and then welds back together on the other side of the hole. I know from testing and experience with this mold and four previous molds that, if a mold is designed well and the parts are molded correctly, the knit lines don't weaken the parts appreciably. (Coda is both tough and light.) However, even though the plastic is structurally strong, the knit lines sometimes appear as tiny thin cracks to an average customer. (Of course, you guys are all above average or even superior, but still...)

So, to keep you from worrying about whether "maybe your instrument is defective," we may choose to add texturing to the top and bottom surfaces of Coda. By the way, if you have a poly G or C, you'll notice the texturing, although Coda's will likely be more subtle.

After they run the dark samples, we'll determine whether the mold cavities would benefit from texturing. I'll be on scene to make a quick decision. In a best case scenario, i.e., if the parts are fine without texture, we'll immediately do an initial run of production parts. This might mean that we could bring Coda to the market by the end of August. (The mold is high-quality steel, so they can actually run a lot of parts in it before the steel is hardened.)

If texturing seems advisable, the turn around for that is about a week. Then the question becomes, "How quickly can they get me back on the schedule to run parts?" I'm not sure. A month ago, I would have thought we'd have black samples two weeks ago, but these things are not under my direct control.

Then there is the ultrasonic welding equipment that is needed to assemble Coda.  The expert says that it typically takes about 15 days after we have production parts to finish that up. Will it only take 15 days? We'll see.

So, without boring you more with detailed timelines, September looks good.  I believe a wise forum member once said, "A watched pot never boils." The trick is to stay focused and patient at the same time.


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on July 24, 2017, 08:54:32 pm
By "mold cavities", which sounds like a particularly disturbing dental condition, do you mean the inner surface of the chambers, or something else? It hasn't occurred to me that they might be textured, although of course they're always textured in Clay or wood ocarinas, for what that's worth.


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 24, 2017, 09:38:49 pm
Thanks Karl! Your awesome , dude!!!  :)
So you can only make one coda at a time? Wow!!!
 Their going to have to run 24/7 to keep up with your orders. :o  :D  ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 25, 2017, 03:02:52 am
Quote
By "mold cavities", which sounds like a particularly disturbing dental condition, do you mean the inner surface of the chambers, or something else? It hasn't occurred to me that they might be textured, although of course they're always textured in Clay or wood ocarinas, for what that's worth.
Sorry for the confusion. If needed, the texturing would be just on the outer top and bottom surfaces of Coda, to improve aesthetics and make the slight weld lines disappear.

Quote
So you can only make one code at a time? Wow!!! Their going to have to run 24/7 to keep up with your orders.
Yes, every time the mold closes and opens, it molds the four parts that make up one Coda. But don't worry too much about our poor molders. They would love it if we were to keep them that busy!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 25, 2017, 08:38:46 am
Thanks Karl! Your awesome , dude!!!  :)
So you can only make one coda at a time? Wow!!!
 Their going to have to run 24/7 to keep up with your orders. :o  :D  ;)


Actually depending on what kind of machine they have and how thick the parts are the Injection molding process can crank out up to 25 a minute. With that being said, I am guessing it would be more like 1-3 a minute because ocarinas are fairly thick and the plastic would need  some time to cool before dropping out of the mold on to the convener belt


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 25, 2017, 01:33:04 pm
It occurred to me that you had only seen a rough 3D printed Coda logo on an older prototype, so --since we are all in waiting mode-- I thought I'd try to distract you with some logo PDFs. :) Also, those old pictures showed two logos. New Coda only has the one logo. The oval area surrounding the Coda logo is sunken to a depth of around 20 thousandths of an inch, and the logo itself is raised to a height of about 16 thousands of an inch.

Here are a few things to keep in mind. The logo is already on the instrument, so that will not change. Being careful, I got lots of feedback ahead of time, but it's not something that will change at this late date. If not colored, the logo is very subtle. (Notice the logos on our polycarbonate Gs and Cs, which you might not have noticed.) If colored, keep in mind that it is only a inch long, and --when shown Coda with or without the colored logo in real life-- people preferred the contrast and interest of Logo-Coda to non-logo-Coda. Some of you won't, and that is wonderful because you'll get to choose, based on photos of the actual up-dated instrument.

To keep this informative thread on track, I ask that you wait for photos of the actual Coda with Logo before more comments on whether you'd like it or not. (Or you can email me at info@MountainOcarinas.com to give me additional Logo-related feedback.) Designing instruments has taught me, again and again, that it's hard to judge a certain look or color until you make one and hold it in your hands.

Note of interest: the Coda (Compact Optimized Dual Aerophone) logo also reflects the shape of our unique toneholes.

These PDFs show the logo in white and gold, but silver is a contender also, as is no color at all.  My wife suggested that we eventually let people choose their favorite color for the logo.
 So, with no further ado, here are the logo PDFs:https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVTTV2QjRZeEVFYTA (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVTTV2QjRZeEVFYTA)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 25, 2017, 01:53:11 pm
Karl,
Folder of images requires permission to enter?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 25, 2017, 02:02:56 pm
Oops! Sorry! I just fixed it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Willfcc on July 25, 2017, 02:19:08 pm
Thanks, works now.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:31 pm
Thanks for all the updates Karl, my knowledge of the pitfalls of injection moulding (UK spelling  :)   ) is growing daily.

Following your update I looked at my existing MOs and yes under a very high magnification lens I can just spot a tiny weld line on the lighter grey plastic around the tone holes, but not where the main body has been textured.  I would have thought they were just surface scratches if they did not all appear in the same orientation and I had not read your explanation.  You really are a perfectionist, but I am not complaining, just impatient.

Looking forward to seeing the photos and hearing new sound samples in due course AND of course actually getting to hold one sometime in the not too different future.  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 26, 2017, 03:29:50 pm
Quote from: Karl
So, to keep you from worrying about whether "maybe your instrument is defective," we may choose to add texturing to the top and bottom surfaces of Coda.

Wouldn't texturing also improve the sliding of the fingers?... I'm not being clear, am I? A smooth surface can be sticky, or rather, fingers can stick more easily to a smooth surface, and so slide more easily on a slightly textured surface ... no?

Quote from: Karl
Note of interest: the Coda (Compact Optimized Dual Aerophone) logo also reflects the shape of our unique toneholes.

All the letters, or just the O?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 26, 2017, 04:16:28 pm
Quote
Wouldn't texturing also improve the sliding of the fingers?... I'm not being clear, am I? A smooth surface can be sticky, or rather, fingers can stick more easily to a smooth surface, and so slide more easily on a slightly textured surface ... no?
You are clear, and that's a great question! Personally, I tend to use slides a fair amount. As you know, the first instruments from our new mold are smooth, i.e. without texturing, but several of my previous 3D printed prototypes have natural texturing. Based on experience, texturing seems to be a neutral issue. Slides work well on both versions.

Quote
Note of interest: the Coda (Compact Optimized Dual Aerophone) logo also reflects the shape of our unique toneholes.
 
Quote
All the letters, or just the O?
There is a repetition of theme. Both the outer oval (which has the same ratio, 0.7:1, as the unequal halves of our bisected toneholes) surrounding the word "Coda"and the letter "O" are bisected by the same vertical line in the "O." It's abstract of course, as well as is the name "Coda." 

As most of you know, the stylized "O" is an actual coda symbol, which, in musical notation, signals one to move ahead to the resolution of a piece of music--or, in this case, to the resolution of a long, long musical journey.  A take anywhere, fluid-fingering, two-octave chromatic flute that fits in the palm of your hand.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 26, 2017, 09:46:20 pm
It works on so many levels.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on July 27, 2017, 01:07:21 am
It works on so many levels.

Just like elevator jokes... ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 27, 2017, 05:48:19 pm
Quote
Just like elevator jokes...
Now you're just being silly. I was about to share some serious stuff, like Coda's nuclear jetpack option, but now I'm not even going to bother because it's clearly all a joke to you. ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 28, 2017, 11:07:17 am
It works on so many levels.

Which does matter in the making of a logo.

I was about to share some serious stuff, like Coda's nuclear jetpack option

As long as it less than doubles the price of the regular Coda, I'm interested.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 28, 2017, 01:36:39 pm
So Karl, what are you going to do with those clear CODA units? ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 28, 2017, 02:16:38 pm
I think they'll be going into the Coda prototype museum, which will eventually be donated to the Smithsonian.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 28, 2017, 05:03:26 pm
Quote
So Karl, what are you going to do with those clear CODA units?

Hmmm, I see what you are hinting at. They only gave me a half dozen. Since they are clear, I put 3 of them down and now I can't find them anywhere. (I just heard a crunch, so I may have stepped on one.) The other three had already been reserved in advance: one for the master, one for the dame, and one for the little boy who lives down the lane. No, actually, one went to the ultrasonic welder, one to Ubizmo, one gave it's life for one type of testing, another for another type of testing, and I do have to hold onto the last two for the Coda museum after I am done making sound samples with them. Whenever possible, I like to keep prototypes of all stages of development to document progress.

Without going into a detailed explanation (for once), I don't have plans to sell clear Codas.

Of course, for the right price, I'd give up Ubizmo's address and a detailed schedule of when he leaves his house unattended, but I'm pretty sure that he takes his Coda with him when he goes out.

The spring-loaded nuclear jetpack option will indeed be a bit pricey, but we may include it free with the purchase of a life-size solid gold chess set. Anyway, I have to get back to work now. Obviously, I'd rather chat with you guys than put my nose to the grindstone. :)


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 28, 2017, 08:59:08 pm
Of course, for the right price, I'd give up Ubizmo's address and a detailed schedule of when he leaves his house unattended, but I'm pretty sure that he takes his Coda with him when he goes out.

You'd better believe it. The invisible Coda is always with me. And in case of emergency I still carry a weaponized aluminium MO. Just sayin.

It's actually very exciting to know that Coda really is at the point where it's no longer a planned instrument. It's a real instrument that will soon be available to everyone.

I play Coda every day, for over a year now. I don't play my MOs anymore. My muscle and musical memory has been completely transferred to Coda. I've played Coda in public, and when people ask me what that funny looking thing is I just say Coda (it's not really funny looking but it is different).

I will be happy to upgrade to a Cobalt blue Coda, however. The clear one looks like a sketch for a finished work of art. As a musician who has played sax, recorder, ocarina, tin whistle and whatever else at various times for over fifty years I can say that Coda is in a class by itself. I completely understand how impatient everyone here is and all I can say is, it's worth the wait. Coda rocks!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 29, 2017, 01:30:16 am
Way to rub it in ubizmo!  >:( ::) :D
Sometime I would like to see it if possible?  :)


Title: Re: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 29, 2017, 10:20:35 am
The invisible Coda is always with me.

Sometime I would like to see it if possible?  :)

;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on July 29, 2017, 05:15:35 pm
No problem, have a look. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170729/2c093d626edfa8d4e2e44a467d2678a3.jpg)

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 29, 2017, 06:04:14 pm
Thats funny!!!  :o  ::)  :D  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on July 29, 2017, 07:40:10 pm
Well, I must admit, on this Coda, the logo is very discreet.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 30, 2017, 04:06:03 am
 I don't know it seems a little too fancy for me.  Notice how the edges are almost nonexistent. I like a little more definition.   :(  ??? :D


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on July 30, 2017, 10:55:07 am
The production version will be more understated.


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 30, 2017, 05:38:00 pm
Sigh, and I thought my glasses were hard to find sometimes.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 30, 2017, 07:23:00 pm
You guys are a scream! It's clear that Clear Coda is notoriously camera shy, but our staff was able to capture this one rare photo of CC hanging out in the park with friends.

Pictured with him are his inner circle, the friends he most trusts. They can understand what it feels like when people look right through you as if you weren't there. These are the only guys he can be fully transparent with. So now it's time for us to turn our attention to other things and let poor CC have some privacy. He's already up to his toneholes with avoiding the paparazzi all day!

Black Coda and Cobalt Coda are true extroverts, so you'll get plenty of pictures of them as soon as I have them.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVZzVjRUlBSllQRmc (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVZzVjRUlBSllQRmc)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 30, 2017, 07:40:58 pm
Karl, that 'Clear Coda' is so shy that I need permission to see the picture.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 30, 2017, 07:44:22 pm
I am nothing if not consistent! (I did the same thing the last time I posted files.) All fixed!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on July 30, 2017, 08:43:05 pm
Thanks for fixing the picture,  too bad you couldn't get a photo where he wasn't partly hidden behind one of his friends.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on July 31, 2017, 02:32:14 am
Hey! We can put lights in it and make it any color we want.  :o 8)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on July 31, 2017, 01:47:30 pm
Quote
Hey! We can put lights in it and make it any color we want.  Shocked Cool

Like some kind of cyberpunk/acoustic mashup? I like it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on July 31, 2017, 03:23:42 pm
I don't see what the big fuss is all about. ::)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on July 31, 2017, 06:36:20 pm
Unlike most of you, I am just now (as of yesterday) learning to use audio software, namely, Audacity. Doing so has made me think that I should put the quick Coda sound samples that I did last week into proper context. Here are those samples: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVVEtjVUMxSlE1RkU (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0zhPrS1sbhVVEtjVUMxSlE1RkU). 

Perhaps it is all too obvious, but those rough recordings have no processing done to them. I simply recorded the sound from a mic into a digital recorder. (Most music recordings for public consumption have some post recording effects added, such as noise removal, normalization, equalization, a bit of compression and reverb...)  In this case, I was too rushed even to learn how to trim off the beginnings or endings of recordings, so I had to reject takes in which I simply cleared my throat too loudly or banged the mic stand before starting to play. (Pitiful, I know.) This is all to say that we (especially I) can do a lot better on the recordings.

In other news, hopefully, this is the week when they will run black and perhaps dark cobalt blue parts. Let's see!



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 01, 2017, 12:36:53 am
 Well I kind of figured you had not added any affects to anything because it was either that or you were really bad at it.  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 01, 2017, 05:45:22 am
You gave us exactly what I wanted, some clean recordings that were not edited. I wanted to hear the instrument and not what an effects processor can do to it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 01, 2017, 03:21:37 pm
You gave us exactly what I wanted, some clean recordings that were not edited. I wanted to hear the instrument and not what an effects processor can do to it.

Yes for me that works fine for first samples. That way I know what I got to work with and build up on.
Now don't get me wrong. I am looking forward to some more high-quality samples  and videos but the samples serve their purpose for what we need to know  for a baseline.
So you can set me up with a cobalt blue, please. Thank you. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on August 07, 2017, 07:13:47 am
I just saw the clear version, and I have a strong desire to get one in addition to a solid black version. I would love to attach some LEDs.

My dream potable acoustic flute would be something like the coda, but sounding about half an octave lower and having low b and high c# through e fingerings on both chambers. I wouldn't mind wearing a giant ocarina necklace, but I think most people would mind.

I'm guessing internal chamber walls prevent the high notes from being possible while keeping the other good stuff..

If they were possible, I would love for both chambers to be able to play high f by blowing too loudly for high e. I like high f more than I like stable high e, but I like high c stable (and pink lemonade flavored) and don't really use c# like I use f.

I'm not sure how realistic fipple-bending both chambers in unison would be, but that would be very nice if it was possible to keep the current timbre. I don't want anything lower than low g# badly enough to give up any other good feature.

I would love a closed loop fixed to each side of the ocarina for completing the loop of a neck cord, in addition to the clip. This would probably make it much less aesthetically pleasing, but more functional.

I don't know enough about electronic pickups and jacks to have a specific dream for those.

I wonder what could be done with a built in pickup and passive jack.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on August 16, 2017, 08:27:41 am

In other news, hopefully, this is the week when they will run black and perhaps dark cobalt blue parts. Let's see!



Still waiting to find out the news on this tease.   :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on August 16, 2017, 02:45:20 pm
Hey, is today Obizmo's birthday?  Not sure, but pretty darn close.  I bet he's having fun with his new clear Coda...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on August 16, 2017, 04:51:54 pm
delete


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on August 16, 2017, 07:58:07 pm

In other news, hopefully, this is the week when they will run black and perhaps dark cobalt blue parts. Let's see!



Still waiting to find out the news on this tease.   :)

Me too!!!!!!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 19, 2017, 09:48:54 pm
I would love to hear an update about the CODA, I have some money burning a hole in my pocket.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 21, 2017, 09:35:17 pm
Quote
I would love to hear an update about the CODA, I have some money burning a hole in my pocket.


Me to, Harp player.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 24, 2017, 02:54:28 am
Me, too! (Except the part about having a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket.)

To the best of my ability, I'll post an update tomorrow, 8/24/17.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 24, 2017, 04:15:00 am
Thanks Karl. :D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 25, 2017, 03:35:56 am
Well, I've been holding off on posting because I keep hoping to share encouraging news.

Since back in July, I've been expecting parts any day, but issues keep coming up: the tool was still out for hardening, the color concentrate had not arrived yet, etc.  As of yesterday, the latest word from the molder is, "Guys are finishing up another job and you are next in line for install.  As soon as we are ready I will call so you can come down and see the parts."

In the original quote, we were supposed to have finished parts within 10 to 12 weeks.  It's not like I'm counting or anything, but, as of today, 22 weeks have passed since I officially placed an order for the Coda injection mold, and 8 and a half weeks just since we received our first clear sample parts. As you can see, we are running a tiny bit behind.

Of course, this is frustrating, but any really important project requires patience. Hopefully, all the many challenges and delays will soon be a distant, vague memory once we have finished Codas in hand. We've waited this long. I'm at least 98.9% sure that waiting a little longer won't kill us.

As soon as I know anything more, YOU will be the first to know!





Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 25, 2017, 05:12:53 am
Thanks for the update Karl.  I know it has to be very frustrating for you because you have invested a huge amount of time and money into this process, and the rewards are way behind in coming to you.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on August 25, 2017, 06:10:09 am
Thank you for the update it is much appreciated, frustrating for everyone especially Karl, but at least things are still moving ahead even if a bit slower than expected. 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 25, 2017, 02:34:57 pm
Thanks for the support, guys!  And guess what!  They just called to say they are now running my mold, so I'm going to drop everything and head on down to the molders for a look. Will texturing be needed? I'll update you soon.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on August 26, 2017, 07:26:58 pm
Okay, I picked up the "black" parts yesterday at the molder. They came out nice except that... they were actually dark brown. Something about that felt slightly off. Thus, I drove to the home of some trusted friends, and we all agreed that a more typical black would be more expected and attractive. (As mentioned in an earlier post, when I ask for aesthetic opinions, I am careful not to poison the well by telling interviewees ahead of time what I think --or what others think-- before they make their own independent decision.)

We'll get the color right.

More importantly, we made the difficult decision that it would be best to apply texture to the mold faces. As expected from my experience with previous molds, there were slight knit lines around some of the toneholes, which can appear as thin scratches in the proper light. 

As a result of that decision, they now have to take the mold apart and truck it off to a company in Massachusetts that is a worldwide expert in texturing. There, they will carefully mask some areas and then chemically etch the hardened steel to leave an attractive texture on the top and bottom faces. This should take a week or two. 

Why was this a difficult decision? Well, as you may remember, the mold weighs almost half a ton, has lots of water lines, and is a pain to disassemble, assemble, or transport, all of which require time, effort, and $$$, so I'm sure the molder would be a lot happier if I would just forgo the texturing. What happened next is not something I am proud of.  Under the pressure of the moment, I wound up throwing you guys under the bus, blaming my ornery pickiness on you, my esteemed future Coda players. At least I didn't give up any names, so if anybody asks, you still have plausible deniability.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on August 27, 2017, 12:21:50 am
Thanks for the update Karl sigh, maybe I will get a CODA before I die of old age.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on August 27, 2017, 01:00:06 am
Thanks for the update Karl sigh, maybe I will get a CODA before I die of old age.

Hey fellow harp player. I hope we don't loose you for a long,long time.
Karl is getting up there in years to. We don't want to loose Him to old age either.  :D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on August 27, 2017, 11:58:48 am
merci pour les nouvelles...
Soyons positif, le projet avance... après toutes ces années d'attente, nous y sommes presque! ;D

"thank you for the news...
Let's be positive, the project is progressing ... after all these years of waiting, we are almost there! ;D "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: DeTerminator on August 29, 2017, 01:37:02 am
The wait will be worth it, I'm sure!  It keeps getting better every passing day.  Karl wants Coda to be the best ever, when we get it in our hands.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on August 29, 2017, 08:53:51 am
Thank you for the update, at least the texturing was always seen as a possible issue, so not a massive surprise.

 I still have Coda down for certain other peoples Christmas presents and with any luck the rendition of a few Christmas carols.  Is there any way the fingering chart can be made available so that I can spot any possible conflicts in fingering?

I am also a little puzzled, I thought that the Coda was going to be Cobalt Blue, was the Black version just to try out the quality of the moulding process?


Title: Re:
Post by: ubizmo on August 30, 2017, 01:01:45 am
I think the plan was to run parts in black and cobalt blue to see how they look. But not dark brown.


Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on August 30, 2017, 12:59:39 pm
Under the pressure of the moment, I wound up throwing you guys under the bus, blaming my ornery pickiness on you, my esteemed future Coda players. At least I didn't give up any names, so if anybody asks, you still have plausible deniability.

I don't need plausible deniability. I assume my pickiness, though in the present case I don't have to pay the price for it -- you do. It would be a lot easier and cheaper for you to forgo the texturing, I think we're all aware of that.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on September 12, 2017, 07:49:30 am

As a result of that decision, they now have to take the mold apart and truck it off to a company in Massachusetts that is a worldwide expert in texturing. There, they will carefully mask some areas and then chemically etch the hardened steel to leave an attractive texture on the top and bottom faces. This should take a week or two. 


It has been a couple of weeks now so I was wondering if there was any news?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: sharonp on September 13, 2017, 08:28:25 pm
Simple question.  Is there a notification list for the Coda?  Karl has enough on his plate that I didn't want to send an email.  Thanks much!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on September 14, 2017, 03:38:17 am
Hi, SharonP, there is a waiting list for Coda. Just email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com.

D102, as is so often the case, there was a delay on the texturing. The texturing expert was away on vacation for a week, so I couldn't meet with him and the molders to carefully consider the needs of our mold until Tuesday, September 5th. As soon as I got an official quote, I personally dropped off the portion of our mold at the texturers on Thursday, September 7th.  They said it would be about a week...

Why brown parts instead of opaque black or semi-translucent dark cobalt blue?  (If you are reading this aloud, make the sound of a long, frustrated sigh.) "They" --notice I'm not saying who they are-- just plain messed up. I've made my color choices clear for a couple of months now, I follow up regularly, but...sigh! This too shall pass.  Next question!

Quote
I still have Coda down for certain other peoples Christmas presents and with any luck the rendition of a few Christmas carols.  Is there any way the fingering chart can be made available so that I can spot any possible conflicts in fingering?
If you play Mountain Ocarinas, the basic scale on Coda is the same as what you are used to in both octaves. You'll pick up subtle differences on some sharps and flats quickly.  The fingering is very intuitive. If I thought it would help to provide a fingering chart ahead of time, I would. However, the Coda book, which we will provide for free with Coda, walks you through the fingerings in a systematic way.  Speaking of Carols, if some of you have our Favorite Carols in Easy Keys book, you'll be delighted to find that you can play each of the 20 Carols in 2 different keys on Coda. The extra range is stimulating and fun!

I know it's hard to wait! But as laharl666 wisely said,
Quote
Soyons positif, le projet avance... après toutes ces années d'attente, nous y sommes presque!
which, as we all know, means,
Quote
Let's be positive, the project is progressing ... after all these years of waiting, we are almost there!
:D

I'll post again soon.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on September 14, 2017, 05:46:02 am
Thanks for the update Karl.

Any idea of when you might get some production parts?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on September 14, 2017, 09:21:38 am
Thank you for the update and the info about fingering patterns.

Do I detect the slightest hint of frustration creeping in with the mould making and samples process?   :)

Looking forward to your next post hoping it will be all good news.





Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on September 14, 2017, 03:00:33 pm
Harp Player, they just called from the texture specialists to say that our mold was ready. In a few minutes, I'll be driving up to Massachusetts to pick it up and then down to the molders. I'll try to get an updated timeline today, which --as you know-- involves some guess work. ASAP, we have to run more samples and send them on to the ultrasonic welding people so they can finish up their tooling. In earlier conversations, the ultrasonic welding people told me that they can usually finish a job within 15 days of getting production parts. (Seeing is believing.) Be assured that I am confident that our project will be completed well in advance of your stated deadline:
Quote
...maybe I will get a CODA before I die of old age.

D102, my frustration level depends on my outlook. Yes, I often feel frustrated, even embarrassed, by how long things are taking, especially since you guys are watching and waiting. At the same time, I often remind myself (and my loving, supportive wife reminds me also) of one of my foundational beliefs: the only way you really fail at something is by quitting. As long as you keep going forward, you are making progress, and, eventually, you'll get where you want to go. When you do, will it matter all that much how long it took?

I'll post again soon. I've got some exciting experiences playing Coda that I want to share when I get a chance.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on September 14, 2017, 05:24:33 pm
Good to hear from you Karl. Thanks for the updates.  :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on September 15, 2017, 05:14:47 am
Thanks for the update Karl.

Yes, it has been a very long wait for many of us.  You can take comfort in the fact that many people are ready and willing to buy your new instrument based solely on the quality of your past work. That is a great position for a small business to be in.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on September 15, 2017, 03:31:13 pm
Eagerly waiting for you to share your exciting experiences playing Coda, Karl. I know it is worth the wait for this unique musical instrument._


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on September 16, 2017, 06:17:18 pm
Nous attendons de vos nouvelles avec impatience!
Il est très intéressant de suivre pas à pas l'évolution de votre projet!
Et comme l'a dit Shar,"we know it is worth the wait for this unique musical instrument"

We look forward to hearing from you!
It is very interesting to follow step by step the evolution of your project!
And as said Shar, "we know it is worth the wait for this unique musical instrument"
 ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 04, 2017, 05:56:57 pm
This will just be a quick, big picture update.  It is a busy time as we strive to be prepared for the Coda launch on many fronts.

We now have nice production parts (in dark brown), and the texturing came out very nice. If you are not excited about brown either, have no fear! We ran those parts only because we needed to get them ASAP to the ultrasonic welding equipment company so that they could complete work on our horns and fixtures. Without that ultrasonic welding equipment, we can't assemble Coda.

As far as when they will complete their work, the ultrasonic welding guys say,  "...delivery [of the tooling] is 1st/2nd week November or ASAP."  So, write that on your calendars! It looks like November is the month.  And since I am NEVER wrong when I make a prediction...  (A song from the Pirates of Penzance springs to mind here. If you don't get this one, you may need to go to a few more high school musicals.)

We finally have the needed color concentrate to make both black and slightly-transparent dark cobalt-blue parts. There were a lot of delays on this because we are working with a type of plastic that neither my molder nor the color concentrate people have worked with before, so you wouldn't believe all we've gone through just to get these color concentrates. (None of the suppliers had the cobalt blue resin, so it is a true custom color, but we could have bought stock black material instead of getting a custom color concentrate made. The only drawback was that we would have had to buy 15,000 or 20,000 pounds of it. Gulp! Hopefully next year!)

I've chosen a plastic called Zylar --a less common, more expensive resin-- because it is very tough, it molds a bit more precisely with less molded-in stress than either polycarbonate or ABS, and it is very safe, i.e., it's suitable for medical devices, reusable drinking ware, etc. 

I mention the colors again because I think that two-tone Codas will look classy and more interesting. (The proof is in the pudding, though.) You see, Coda has four components: a top, a middle, a bottom, and a mouthpiece, so we can combine these components in different ways to create Coda Blue, Coda Black, and --for the really hardcore-- Coda Black & Blue. ;)  (You are not alone. My wife didn't think that was funny either.)

Gotta run...


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on October 05, 2017, 07:54:30 am
Thanks for the update Karl, it is much appreciated. Sounds like lots of good news with a great probability of having a Coda in time for Christmas 2017.

The only real question is when you would like some money? Will you be contacting people on the waiting list or just let the orders flood in and sort them out then?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on October 05, 2017, 08:13:28 am
Just looked up Zylar and apart from being tough, very safe and have good moulding characteristics I was glad to note that it also has excellent resistance to alcohol. I am now wondering if this was a factor in your decision, if so you really do try to think of everything!  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on October 05, 2017, 02:52:40 pm
Thanks, Karl. Long, tough road. Almost there. Can we have a beautiful Celtic tune soon?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on October 05, 2017, 05:25:28 pm
Thanks Karl.  Maybe I can have one  in time for Christmas.  I was hoping to have it in time to play a few Christmas tunes on it.  Sigh maybe next year.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on October 08, 2017, 10:44:12 am
Thank you for the update, Karl.  8)

(And you are funny. Weird, but funny.)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 26, 2017, 07:25:07 pm
A forum probably isn’t the place to mention this, but it’s all we’ve been able to think about lately. Even though physically present, I’ve been away for the last few weeks. You see, we lost my wonderful, witty, warmhearted mom soon after my last post. I had just flown out to California and back as her escort so she could visit my brothers and their families out West for a few weeks. (At 87, Mom wasn’t comfortable flying alone anymore.) Two days later, we got the call. After a day full of smiles, enjoying family, and playing with her newest great-grandchild, Mom collapsed while completing her daily crossword puzzle and didn’t wake back up. As much as she had tried to prepare us for her death (for example, she would often start sentences with her droll phrase, “When I croak…”), of course we weren’t ready. Then came the funeral, loved ones from out of town, clearing out her house, etc., etc.  (My amazing wife Susan and I are the local ones, so we are the boots on the ground.) Anyway, I am back now--mostly. We are thankful to have enjoyed the friendship of our most loyal supporter for so long.
 
So, about Coda… we now have our first production run of opaque black and semi-translucent dark cobalt blue parts.  They look very good.  Now, we are just waiting for the ultrasonic welding company to finish up the tooling so that we can assemble Coda.

Harp Player, I promise that we can make it by Christmas. (And I'm pretty sure that it will be Christmas of 2017.) 

Sinocelt, thanks for saying that I'm funny. (I would offer you the customary Coda "kiss-up" discount, but I'm afraid that calling me weird, while it may be true, disqualifies you for any special offers. I'm sure you understand.)

Shar, I'm going to record some videos soon. I'll keep in mind your suggestion for a beautiful Celtic song.

D102, your question about Zylar's excellent resistance to alcohol made me laugh, but, for the record, "No comment." We will be emailing people soon about how to order Coda. Before I ask you to send money, you'll get to see demo videos, etc.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on October 27, 2017, 01:48:38 am
Sorry for your loss Karl.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on October 27, 2017, 05:51:11 am
I am so sorry about the loss of your Mother.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on October 27, 2017, 01:59:33 pm
I'm so sorry ,Karl. I just lost my beloved sister. It's a difficult time.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on October 27, 2017, 06:19:44 pm
mes sincères condoléances pour la mort de votre mère Karl ...
"my sincere condolences for the death of your mother Karl ..."


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 27, 2017, 07:22:19 pm
You all are very kind, as I knew you would be. What a great group of people!

Here is a portion of an email that I just received from the company that is creating our custom tooling for ultrasonic welding the 4 Coda components: "Your tooling is being worked on now. One set of tooling is done and the shop is finishing up the other 2 sets. We should be ready to start test welding parts by the end of next week."  Next Friday is November 3rd, so --depending on how the testing goes-- it looks like they are on track.  I'm hoping to begin sales by Coda Friday (previously referred to as Black Friday). Before that, you should have pictures, a website, demo videos, tips videos...

By the way, with the expensive delays and as we get a more accurate view of costs, I should mention that I miscalculated the price of Coda. At first it was to be $99, but then I lowered it to $49.95 to make Coda a bit more accessible (against the friendly advice of some of you). Well, now, all things considered, $59.95 seems like a wiser price. (It's a mistake to run out of gas during takeoff.)  Of course, I will honor the $49.95 price for you faithful followers on the waiting list.  Also, we're considering offering the $49.95 price to people who buy 2 or more Codas in the same transaction. We're not completely sure about this one, but it would be a big help to those who want to purchase extra instruments for family or friends, and it would likely benefit us as well.

Thanks again for the words of comfort.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on October 28, 2017, 11:49:26 am
Very sorry to hear about your mother, Karl. As you say, no matter how prepared you think you are, you're just not ready for that.

Re: Coda.. Have you experimented with mixing the two colors yet?

Edit: changed "strange" to "sorry". "Strange" was a strange choice for autocorrect.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on October 28, 2017, 01:31:59 pm
Thank you for the updates Karl, Coda seems to be getting very, very close to launch now.  Thank you also for having the courage to post about the death of your mother something that must still be very painful for you.  She sounds like a lovely lady and I am sure you miss her.  Seventeen years on and I still miss mine.

Glad my comment regarding alcohol resistance got a laugh, it was very "tongue in cheek" (is that expression used in the US?)

Anyway my money is ready and waiting whichever price and with or without any more pictures, sound samples or videos I am just hoping you can dispatch early enough to avoid the Black Friday and Christmas postal log-jams.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 28, 2017, 05:03:19 pm
I'm glad you asked about colors, Ubizmo. The first thing I have to say about color combinations is that I didn’t expect to like the solid colors as much as I do.

I really like the black, especially now with the matte, scratch resistant texturing on the top and bottom surfaces. The smooth non-textured mouthpiece makes a nice contrast. In fact, I even like the very dark brown Codas (a color which the colorant people sent us by mistake) now that they have the textured top and bottom surfaces. For me personally, I guess the black has a slight edge over the dark brown, but since you well-dressed individuals will obviously demand a Coda to match every outfit and pair of shoes, brown Coda may have a place in your Winter wardrobe. ;)

When I first picked up the cobalt blue parts, I was still in sort of a daze for reasons referred to above, so I wasn't that in tune with colors. Now, however, I have grown to love the blue. The color is quite dark in subdued lighting but takes on depths and hues as light hits it. When you hold it up to a bright light, you can spy some (but not all) of Coda’s complex inner engineering, which is cool.

Would I personally choose black or blue? My rather conservative tastes may lead me to favor the black, but I’m not sure. Frankly, I’d be proud to carry either. As always, you get to decide. We'll have nice pictures beforehand.

So, what about Ubizmo’s question regarding the mixing of colors? Black-with-blue-mouthpiece or blue-with-black-mouthpiece both look good, but do they look better than solid colors?  The jury is still out on this one. It might make sense to go with solids at first. I plan to get lots of feedback from you guys as photos are available.

This is a good time to talk about why I still haven’t shared photos (with the exception of those pictures of older prototypes posted on this forum thread) or videos. Here’s why. Coda’s joints have been carefully designed (and redesigned across several drafts) so that we can assemble him with ultrasonic welding. Since that welding equipment is not quite ready yet, my only choice is to painstaking shave off a bunch of tiny molded-in features (called energy directors) and then carefully glue the components together. These glued Codas sound great, just like they would if ultrasonically welded.

The problem is that Coda isn’t designed to be glued, so glue seeps out of the joints, marring and clouding the various surfaces, and the end result looks –in technical jargon– “kind of crappy.”  Showing you Coda (my baby) in that condition feels sort of like trying to sell you my house before updating our hideous 1970s kitchen, painting over those wall scratches from when we moved the treadmill, or scrubbing that black mold from between our bathroom tiles. (In case my wife reads this, the house described above is the product of the author’s imagination. Any resemblance to an actual house is purely coincidental.)

Yes, sometimes I can sand and buff out the unsightly gluing residue, but then you wind up with pictures that look different from what you’ll actually receive. (You've all read those angry Amazon reviews by disappointed customers: "I'm giving this product just one star even though I love it because the ad said it was light beige but I think it's more of a medium-light beige.") Since we are so close to having a final product, I have preferred to wait.  With that said, I plan to begin making demo videos this coming Thursday, but they won’t involve close-ups. Thus, I won’t feel like I’m misleading anyone.
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the vote of confidence, d102. You said,
Quote
I am just hoping you can dispatch early enough to avoid the Black Friday and Christmas postal log-jams.
Me too! We'll do the very best we can! The unknown factor right now is how long it will take to get the ultrasonic welding up and running.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on October 28, 2017, 05:56:19 pm
I find myself more mystically drawn to the dark blue, through which light dimly shows, for some reason. All things considered, I suspect the monochrome Coda will look more distinguished, but I do wonder whether having a different color as a layer, rather than just the mouthpiece, might look cool. This sort of thing worked pretty well with the Warmstone MOs, after all.

It will be important to have cards printed up. I can already attest that people will not recognize Coda as a musical instrument but they will be very interested after they hear it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 28, 2017, 06:17:48 pm
Ubizmo, here is what I'll do. I'll send you unassembled blue, brown, and black sets, which you can assemble, mix, match, and evaluate. As always, I welcome your sage advice. Note: the four Coda components fit together beautifully without gluing or ultrasonic welding, but the instruments look slightly different than they will when welded because the raised energy directors cause little gaps at the joints.

Now, to the rest of you, my children, please know that I love you all equally. Don't feel jealous of Ubi. I'd send you all samples if I could! ;)

By the way, just to give you an idea of how personal color choices can be, I've polled some people in the last few days. Yesterday, the balance was tilted toward solid colors. Today, toward color combinations. And since what we perceive as color is reflected light, lighting conditions are a big factor.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on October 28, 2017, 06:50:38 pm
Hey Karl !!! So sorry to hear about your Mom. I lost my Mom in July. She was a awesome mother and friend that loved the LORD. She loved to help people young and old. She was well loved in the community.
So I do understand.

I’m glad to hear about the progress with CODA. Thanks for the update.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on October 28, 2017, 07:04:02 pm
I thought at first that the solid black would be my first choice but now the dark blue that lets the light come through like a dark jewel is my first choice.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on October 28, 2017, 07:43:24 pm
I'm so sorry ,Karl. I just lost my beloved sister. It's a difficult time.

So sorry for your loss also Shar.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on October 28, 2017, 08:47:58 pm
Hey Ubizmo. Do you have any demo videos coming up?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Jason on October 28, 2017, 10:06:16 pm
So sorry to hear about your loss :( My mother also recently passed away and was only in her 60s. No fun at all :(

Very excited to hear about the progress with the CODA. Will definitely order the song book to go along with it and to learn to play it. Will it come with CDs like the other songbook did?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on October 29, 2017, 12:09:28 am
Sorry Jason for your loss.
Wow! Sounds like it has been a ruff time for many in this small group. :(


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on October 29, 2017, 02:04:04 pm
Hey Ubizmo. Do you have any demo videos coming up?

Not immediately, because at the moment I only have one of the invisible Codas. I plan to resume making videos when I have a visible one. I may remake some earlier ones as well, using Coda instead of MO. There were a few tunes where I made compromises due to range limitation. But I want to do more "location" recording, without backing track. Or even with a backing track, but not recorded in this little room in my house. I think it gives people a better feeling about the instrument to see it played out in the world.

A tune that I find myself playing a lot is "Carolan's Welcome", which is in the Coda book. I'll probably begin with that.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on October 29, 2017, 08:14:55 pm
Very good !  You seem to play and record a lot of the music I like and play. So between You and Karl we should have a good sampling.




Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on October 30, 2017, 06:43:17 am

It the breath requirements for the CODA close to what the breath requirement are for the MO C?

The reason I am asking is because my Ocarinas have been collecting dust for a while because of the limited range. I have got them out some the past couple of nights to get back it practice, but I was wondering if it would be better to just wait a few more weeks on the CODA?


 I plan to resume making videos when I have a visible one. I may remake some earlier ones as well, using Coda instead of MO. T


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on October 30, 2017, 11:14:38 am
The breath requirements are very similar to MOs, the C specifically. The sound produced is different though, as soon you can tell from the sound samples Karl made.


Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on October 30, 2017, 12:47:21 pm
The MO "C" is my favourite but I still struggle to get the breath correct to get the low C spot on, especially when dropping from a much highter note, hoping the Coda is going to be a little easier.  Any helpful tips in the meantime would be much appreciated.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on October 30, 2017, 03:31:41 pm
Hi, guys, I'm jumping in quick to answer some questions.

D102, I think you'll find that Coda's low C is nice and solid--easy to play. I understand everyone's desire for tips in advance. I would want them too! However, the reality is that I'm racing the clock to get pieces into place for the launch (which includes tips videos), so I think it makes sense to wait and present the tips in context--when you are actually holding a Coda in your own hands. Keep in mind that, outside of this small group of faithful followers, this whole Coda project is still very much under the radar.

Harp Player, I'm not sure how much getting out your old C will help you. Some things about Coda are the same as what you are used to. Thus, if you play one of our other instruments (or even if you don't), you will pick up Coda relatively quickly.

For instance, in both octaves, the fingering for the C scale on Coda is the same intuitive linear fingering pattern that you are used to. 

But, there are differences also.

One difference is that Coda has a few overlapping notes in the middle of the scale --B, C, C#, and D-- that you can play in two ways. At first, sometimes you vacillate on which fingering to choose, but with a bit of practice, the overlapping notes make challenging passages much easier to play.

Another notable difference from our previous models is that you play the D in the 2nd octave by lifting your left thumb instead of your right thumb. (Note: you can also play that 2nd octave D with the old low D fingering--whichever is easier, depending on the musical passage that you are playing.)

A few chromatic fingerings are slightly different than on our present models, but we have found that you pick up the differences quickly.  Of course, you now have a much wider range of notes, so you have to get used to reading some new musical notes if you aren't already. The Coda book (included with Coda; no CDs) is designed to get you up and running on Coda quickly and to give you plenty of beautiful music to play. We'll make lots of simple tips videos also.

You play Coda with relaxed, straighter fingers instead of highly curved fingers. (Again, we'll make short tips videos to show you all this.)

Wow! I just modified this post because I forgot the biggest difference between Coda and our previous instruments. You blow into one opening in the mouthpiece for low notes and another opening for high notes.The fact that I forgot shows how 2nd nature this has become to me, but you have to get used to it. You see, Coda has two sound chambers but just one set of toneholes and a fluid, intuitive fingering pattern. This makes it much easier play and to improvise with than double ocarinas. (Also, tiny, tough, and light, Coda is designed with EDC, or EveryDay Carry, in mind. In other words, Coda is specifically designed to make it easier to bring along wherever you go.)

Finally, I should mention a limitation of the Coda book. Unfortunately, it is only helpful to those who already read music. For those who want to learn, I plan to create free video lessons based on our Learning to Play curriculum, adapted to encompass Coda's wider range.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on October 30, 2017, 03:47:36 pm
Karl can't wait to get my hands on one.  The few minor nuances seem as if they will easily be overcome.

Thanks for the update!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on October 30, 2017, 05:40:17 pm
Sorry for your loss.

I just googled cobalt blue; it looks awesome! I had it mixed up with a duller blue. Translucent emerald green and translucent red might be worth considering.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on October 30, 2017, 07:22:29 pm
merci pour toutes ces précisions Karl!
Nous avons hâte!
L'attente devient insoutenable! ;)

"thanks for all these clarifications Karl!
We are excited!
The wait becomes unsustainable!" ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on October 30, 2017, 08:31:31 pm
It's getting more exciting every day. All this input from everyone is great!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Llisas on October 30, 2017, 08:42:50 pm
I'm sorry about your loss Karl. I'm sure that with all your positive vibes, you and your family will find the strenght to overcome this sad moment.

In relation to the CODA, I'm really excited about all the news. Recently I bought a new guitar, microphone and a vocal pedal with looper included, so I've been messing around preparing some songs for when my CODA arrives.

Maybe I'll be lucky enough to get one as a self-present for my birthday (first week of December)  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on October 30, 2017, 09:30:30 pm
The MO "C" is my favourite but I still struggle to get the breath correct to get the low C spot on, especially when dropping from a much highter note, hoping the Coda is going to be a little easier.  Any helpful tips in the meantime would be much appreciated.

As Karl already pointed out, this is an area where Coda is very different from the MO-C. Coda's low C is, as Karl said, very solid; it feels less variable than MO-C's.

And as Karl also said, you'll need to train yourself to use a flatter finger position, to keep the holes sealed. If you arc your fingers much, you can get leaks, which will throw the pitch off rather than squeak. I've found the best way to take care of this is to remember to keep my elbows down when playing. They don't have to be held down in a forced position, just let gravity to it. But you definitely don't want to raise them up, as in the Chicken Dance. When you actually have Coda in your hands you'll instantly see what I'm talking about and it'll quickly become automatic. As with any other instrument, there's a "best practice" for holding it. Coda is no different.

Another nice thing about Coda is that you'll never really have to worry about it flying out of your hands, because there's no note that requires you to take both thumbs off the instrument. High D on the first chamber and high C on the second chamber uncover all tone holes *except* a thumb hole. Moreover, it's easier to find places where you can use your hand to support Coda without covering a hole than it is on the MOs. I always found MOs to be much more "secure" in my hands than regular 12-hole ocarinas (Cris Gale designed her Aria model to help with this), but Coda is a definite notch above MOs in this respect.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on November 02, 2017, 11:36:51 am
 Many thanks to Karl and Ubizmo for their time and trouble in replying to my post, but I feel a little embarrassed as my badly worded post has caused some confusion.

My intention was to request tips on playing the low C on my existing MO better (and yes I have read through everything I could find on the forum).    So my apologies for very poor phrasing and appearing to ask a rather cheeky and premature question.  However the replies have been most helpful for the future so maybe it was not such a bad mistake after all.

I will now try not to ask any more questions and let those concerned get on with the more important business of getting the Coda finalised and sent out to us all.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on November 02, 2017, 08:28:45 pm
Hey Karl !  How is the videos coming along?  :) ;) :D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on November 05, 2017, 07:29:50 pm
Sorry for your loss, Karl. :-[


Sinocelt, thanks for saying that I'm funny. (I would offer you the customary Coda "kiss-up" discount, but I'm afraid that calling me weird, while it may be true, disqualifies you for any special offers. I'm sure you understand.)

Wait! I meant "weird" in the bestest possible way! Like, hm, Weird Al?

(I think I've just earned whatever the opposite of a discount might be called.)


(You've all read those angry Amazon reviews by disappointed customers: "I'm giving this product just one star even though I love it because the ad said it was light beige but I think it's more of a medium-light beige.")

Quite recently. (https://www.amazon.com/Pacsafe-Metrosafe-LS450-Anti-Theft-Backpack/product-reviews/B017BPMUSQ/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_search_rgt?filterByKeyword=rust&search-alias=community-reviews#reviews-filter-bar)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on November 11, 2017, 03:40:48 am
I checked this forum a few months back and was greatly surprised to see all that was happening in regards to what is now called CODA.  I am super excited now that it won't be long until it will be physically here!! 

Carl, I have bought numerous of your MO polycarbonates, (some to give to others or to help homeschoolers get started on a fun instrument) as well as the beautiful warmstone, and I am still amazed at the way you have put together something so powerful, yet expressive; beautiful, yet durable, high quality, yet affordable.  ( I do hope you will resume production on the original MO's eventually)

I am blown away with what you have achieved with Coda, and am looking forward to it patiently. The Cobalt blue (partially translucent if I understand right?) sounds nice, as well as black, and I personally like the sound of brown but I'm fine if it's only the 2 choices.

 I play (or am learning to play)  many different types of instruments (ocarina, Native American flute, pennywhistles, 3 types of accordion, mountain dulcimer, hammer dulcimer, kalimba, bagpipe, autoharp, mandolin, guitar, bawu, sopilka, and others which I have forgotten right now. (I just love to learn to play new instruments, especially unique, obscure, uncommon or forgotten ones as well as familiar.

My first instrument was the mountain dulcimer, and a few years  after I began learning simple tunes on it, I acquired an inline ocarina and began to figure it out (by ear, as i normally do). Then, soon after that, I was looking online for any other good quality ocarinas, not knowing until I found your website that a quality, durable, and affordable one existed. I still highly recommend your ocarinas as some of the best instruments I have. The only one limitation I have ever had that causes me to not be able to use it as much as I want to is...
Extra range. Well, soon that won't be a problem.  I did get my first triple chamber clay ocarina about a year ago, and it is nice, but I am still looking forward to going back to the inline layout on your double and still having the same range as my current triple - while also being pocket size and durable so I can actually take it with me without being scared I might drop it.

I would like to add my thanks to you for the years of work you (and your family) have put into this. I don't know how you can manage to sell it as cheap as you are, but that will make an incredible difference to many people who might not even think they could afford it otherwise.

Thanks,
yet another fan


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 14, 2017, 08:07:24 am
We are now in the second week of November. Any word about the new ultrasonic wielders ?

I know I am being impatient, but we have been holding our breath for a very long time now.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on November 14, 2017, 02:45:56 pm
We are now in the second week of November. Any word about the new ultrasonic wielders ?

I know I am being impatient, but we have been holding our breath for a very long time now.


I know I could use some good news right now. But if there is bad new just rip the bandade of quickly please. ???


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on November 16, 2017, 05:40:47 pm
You guys are great! With all that I have going on, I don't always respond to your posts right away, but I always read them with interest.

Good news! I'll spare you most of the details. I spent the day at the ultrasonic welders yesterday. The new horns and fixtures, after some testing and tweaking, now work really well. This is especially encouraging because we designed and redesigned our joints several times to improve them, but there were still no guarantees, so perhaps you can imagine my relief. 

At present, I have about a dozen assembled Codas that look and play nicely. Also, I took one of them and dropped it over and over onto solid concrete from a height of 4 to 6 feet.  (We'll do more testing in the future.) Coda bounced every time and kept right on playing. Now, I don't present these as unbreakable, but they are designed with EDC in mind. An EveryDay Carry instrument should be small, light, and TOUGH, and I'm pleased to say that Coda lives up to my expectations.

Also, I was playing Coda at the small plant or factory yesterday, and four employees walked up to say they wanted one (or two). I later learned that one of the company owners took an assembled Coda home because he emailed to ask about the Coda book and to say that a couple of his piano-playing teens wanted Codas. While this is gratifying, the real test comes as we gradually find out how many people are willing to part with money to buy one. Time will tell, but I am optimistic. Whatever the case, this is the instrument that I personally have wanted for the last couple of decades but couldn't buy because it didn't exist.

But when, oh, when will Coda be available? Soon, but how soon? Right now they are doing a final polish of the ultrasonic horns and fixtures. Will they finish this week? Maybe, probably, but they couldn't say. As soon as they finish, I will personally transport the ultrasonic tooling over to the injection molding company. Then they'll have to set up their ultrasonic welder so they can perform the three welds on each set of Coda components. The injection molders are great guys, and they say they'll get "right on it," but is that next week (next week includes Thanksgiving), or the following...?  And there are many other details that we are racing to get ready for launch. I say "we," but right now it's mainly me. Very soon, as finances allow, I'll have more help from wonderful people waiting in the wings, but Coda has been a BIG stretch financially, so it's still up to me to spin as many plates as I can.

Thanks again for your extreme patience! I'll keep you in the loop.



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on November 16, 2017, 05:54:19 pm
Merci pour la mise à jour, Karl
Ce sont de bonnes nouvelles!
Vous pouvez compter sur nous pour vous faire de la bonne publicité! ;)

"Thanks for the update, Karl
This is good news!
You can count on us to make you good publicity! ;)"


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on November 16, 2017, 06:47:52 pm
Have you thought about taking few advance orders to help get you over the hump?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on November 16, 2017, 09:22:40 pm
Thank you so much Karl for the update. :D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on November 16, 2017, 10:53:28 pm
Just say the word and I'll send you money


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on November 17, 2017, 01:36:13 am
I think it would be great (after Coda is available) to have a Facebook page to help raise awareness of this incredible instrument.

In relation to this, Carl, I would like to offer to provide photography of Coda (I will gladly buy one of each color choice so that there would be no need to ship them back afterwards).

Of course, I would want to know from you what specific picture angles you might like, but my objective would be to present Coda as the amazing invention that it is, to make it appealing and desirable. 

Thanks for your work on this - looking forward to it.
Ethan


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: AlbertY on November 17, 2017, 02:49:53 am
Thanks for the update! I have my cash ready to send.

Maybe you should auction off the dozen that you have, Karl -- that could help out the finances   ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Ric on November 17, 2017, 09:23:47 pm
Hi Karl,

I was saddened to hear about your mother.  She sounds like a wonderful person.

---

I'm excited for you.  So much work over such a long time is about to pay off.  (I was going to say, "The end is in sight.", but if all goes well you may soon be so busy that you look back on the last few months as the lull before the storm.  At least that's what I'm rooting for.)  ;D

Color choice is very subjective.  I'm looking forward to the blue, and expect it to be quite popular. The economics of scale would encourage picking one "official color", while the tendencies of Ocarina buyers to prefer "one for every outfit plus one to hang on the wall" would encourage multiple small batches in many colors.

Personally, as a fan of my dymondwood Mountain Ocarinas, I've been wondering if a white Coda could be given a wood look using techniques like these: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5d6XbhAmBlY or https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_sBOnIzjIw ? (Coda's texture would create unique challenges, but it should be doable, if not "in house", then by hobbyists or "value added resellers".)

I think your newest target price of $59.95 is very fair, but that you might be "selling yourself short" if you drop it to $49.95/each for two.  What are your thoughts on a pricing structure something like this:

$59.95 for one Coda
$55.95 each for 2 or 3 Codas
$49.95 each for 4 through 9 Codas
$45.95 each for 10 or more Codas

I worry, though, that bulk orders at such a discount could lead to you slaving away for pennies while the bulk of the profits end up in the hands of resellers.  You deserve to be rewarded for your invention.

I'd love to someday walk into a store and see an elegant wood display case engraved with the Mountain Ocarinas and Coda logos, displaying Codas in Saphire, Ruby, Emerald, Ebony, Ivory, and several wood tones, etc.  I also imagine an embedded tablet with videos showing what you can do with this amazing little flute.

Thank you for including us in this journey.  It's been educational and entertaining.

Ric



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on November 18, 2017, 01:59:09 am
I'll parrot a similar sentiment. Karl you should not be afraid to make good money for each and every sale.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Zein on November 18, 2017, 04:36:11 am
Been following this journey for some time, silently. I'm excited that it's end is near and that I'll be able to have one of these soon. I admire you Karl for having a dream and for doing all you can to see it fulfilled.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on November 18, 2017, 07:54:12 pm
Just say the word and I'll send you money

Same here. We don't want to imagine you with empty stockings for Christmas, either!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on November 30, 2017, 01:10:28 pm

But when, oh, when will Coda be available? Soon, but how soon? Right now they are doing a final polish of the ultrasonic horns and fixtures. Will they finish this week? Maybe, probably, but they couldn't say. As soon as they finish, I will personally transport the ultrasonic tooling over to the injection molding company. Then they'll have to set up their ultrasonic welder so they can perform the three welds on each set of Coda components. The injection molders are great guys, and they say they'll get "right on it," but is that next week (next week includes Thanksgiving), or the following...? 


It has been  two weeks now since the last update and we are well into that "following week".  I am sure that I am not the only one very keen to have a Coda or two in time for Christmas.

In my case I was hoping to give them as a presents to a couple of musical friends (and myself of course ).   Would it be possible to have your best guess as to the probability of then arriving in the UK before Christmas?

To make things easy just select one of the following options

   
  • Excellent chance
        Probably
        50/50
        Probably not
        No chance, its likely to be 2018 before they arrive

Thanks in advance for your very precious time.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 02, 2017, 09:05:57 am
Quote
It has been  two weeks now since the last update and we are well into that "following week".  I am sure that I am not the only one very keen to have a Coda or two in time for Christmas.

In my case I was hoping to give them as a presents to a couple of musical friends (and myself of course ).   Would it be possible to have your best guess as to the probability of then arriving in the UK before Christmas?

I have been waiting on those same answers.  Maybe he will know something soon.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 04, 2017, 05:11:56 am
Hi, guys, I'll post something tomorrow, Monday. I hope to know a bit more then. Finally, I have an appointment to pick up the ultrasonic horns and fixtures at 11 am tomorrow morning (a disappointing 2 weeks later than expected). I'll drive the tooling directly over to the molders, and hopefully they can begin welding our instruments during the 1st half of this week. As you can see, it is challenging to make predictions. I can only tell you what they tell me...

What about a Coda Christmas? Well, it still looks quite possible. In the USA, the shipping cutoff date is December 20th for Priority Mail to arrive before Christmas.  D102, I really don't know about overseas shipping. All I can tell you is that we'll do all that is within our power to get them to you!

I've really been enjoying playing Coda lately and hope that you will soon have that experience!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on December 04, 2017, 05:40:36 am
Thanks Karl. I know a lot of things have not been in your control. I know it will be to your advantage to get them out before Christmas if possible. It will definitely help sales I’m sure. I hope and pray it all works out well   for you and us. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on December 04, 2017, 09:43:15 am
Thanks Karl,

I think everyone appreciates that lots of things are outside of your direct control and that you must be at least as  frustrated as the rest of us, probably even more.

I can now plan on the basis that the Coda is unlikely to make it to my house before Christmas (International Shipping slows down a lot at Christmas in my experience) and if they do it will be a great bonus.  Thanks again for the update and wishing you and your family a very Happy Christmas.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 04, 2017, 07:29:58 pm
Merci pour la mise à jour Karl...
Nous n'en pouvons plus d'attendre...
Il est peu probable que la coda arrive en France avant noël... dommage...
Tenez-nous au courant des progrès  :)

" Thanks for the update Karl ...
We can not wait any longer ...
It is unlikely that the coda arrives in France before Christmas ... pity...
Keep us informed of progress  :) "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 05, 2017, 05:14:58 am
Well, time for bed, but I promised I'd post today. I picked up the ultrasonic horns and fixtures as planned and dropped them off at the molders, who in turn told me they'll get right on it (the welding).  I'll post more this week to keep you abreast of progress.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 05, 2017, 05:45:17 pm
merci pour les nouvelles :)
" thank you for the news :) "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 05, 2017, 08:18:47 pm
Thanks Karl.  I guess I need to start counting out some of the change I have been saving for 8 years.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 06, 2017, 02:33:14 am
Okay, they started welding today. It looks like we might be able to start shipping next week, perhaps as early as Wednesday and hopefully no later than Friday (December 13-15). Of course, as always, there is uncertainty because I have to rely on the assurances of others.

As soon as we actually have completed Codas ready to ship, we'll be sending a link, etc., to those of you who have asked to be on the waiting list. I'll announce it here first, but if an email does not reach you, be sure to check your spam folder.  I'll provide more details as they are available.  Pictures, videos, a website, social media, etc., are all forthcoming. (To be on the waiting list, just email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com.)

We hope to reward your patience and faithfulness soon. :)

Harp Player, jars of pennies are fine but may delay shipping while we count them--especially since I feel a strange compulsion around the holidays to be checkin' eveything twice. (Ho, ho, ho!)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on December 06, 2017, 10:03:02 am
That is great news.  Congratulations Karl,  Coda is actually in production after many twists and turns to the story.
I will be checking my email Inbox even more frequently now. 



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 06, 2017, 06:51:09 pm
Karl, no need to count change by hand anymore.  My Credit Union has a machine that will do it for me for free (up to  $200) at a time.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 07, 2017, 04:58:46 pm
C'est une merveilleuse nouvelle, Karl!!! :)
"It's a wonderful news, Karl !!!  :) "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on December 07, 2017, 05:39:57 pm
This is terribly exciting! Congratulations on clearing the last few hurdles, Karl! Home stretch now. :) I'm already on the waiting list, and I'm bouncing with excitement to get my email... My Christmas present to me! ;) Even if it turns up a bit after Christmas.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: ubizmo on December 08, 2017, 12:48:07 am
Even though I've had the privilege of playing Coda in one form or another for some time now, it's hard to believe it's finally "going live"!

I've discussed Coda with various people, and I've played it in public a few times and then had to explain what it is. This is not an easy thing to do. Even musicians are a bit puzzled when I mention the amount of time needed to create it. After all, it looks simple enough. It's some kind of flute, right? It has no keys. How complicated can it be? There's no quick and simple answer to that question.

Even the process of tooling to produce the instrument is not as straightforward as one might imagine. I think we've all learned that just from watching and waiting here. My dad was a toolmaker (not in plastics though) so I have some idea of what's involved in these things but for an independent inventor without access to an actual prototyping shop, the problems are greatly magnified. If, say, Yamaha were developing Coda they'd have a design team bang out the CAD drawings and another team to build the prototypes, and each cycle of modification and prototyping would be done in-house fairly quickly. For Karl, this process was agonizingly slow, with each step of the process--the CAD work, the prototyping, the materials--involving new problems that had to be solved, just to build something that could be tested!

As a sax player I wonder how it was for Adophe Sax as he was developing the saxophone. He started with an idea: a woodwind instrument that doesn't rely on fingers to cover holes that can therefore use multiple pads to get more accurate pitch, offsetting some of the inherent problems of tubular woodwinds (flatting in the second octave, muffled cross-fingerings, etc). It must have been crazy hard for him to build prototypes without a pre-existing saxophone factory already making the main parts. But at least he was working with metal, which can to some extent be worked by hand in a way that plastic can't be.

In any case, Sax got the sax out the door and now Karl is getting Coda out the door!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Ben on December 08, 2017, 03:03:47 am
Ubi,
Check out The Flute and Flute Playing by Theobald Boehm. He talks about how he invented/developed the metal flute. Similar issues to Sax's and in the same time frame. Considering the similarities, I'd think they knew of each other's work.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on December 08, 2017, 05:41:58 pm
Very cool ! We are getting very close now. I think and hope. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on December 08, 2017, 06:11:17 pm
I think this is the instrument I have been looking for for over 10 years. At least that is my hope.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 08, 2017, 07:05:40 pm
moi aussi windjammer ;)
" me too windjammer  ;) "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on December 15, 2017, 04:16:45 pm
we might be able to start shipping next week, perhaps as early as Wednesday and hopefully no later than Friday (December 13-15)

Have a feeling I am not the only one checking this site every few minutes just in case it is today,  :)

They say a man who has hope has everything, well I am still hoping it is today !



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Calculus on December 15, 2017, 04:34:30 pm
I haven't been checking quite that often, but if I recall correctly, I've been checking at least daily.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on December 15, 2017, 04:36:29 pm
I am waiting and looking at the site often as well.  Karl you have lots of eye watching even if you can't see us we are here. :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 15, 2017, 07:41:43 pm
lol moi aussi je regarde plusieurs fois par jours une éventuelle nouveauté...
On reconnaît les vrais passionnés!!   ;)
" lol me too I look several times a day a possible new ...
We recognize the true passionates !!  ;)  "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on December 15, 2017, 09:00:59 pm
Third time today for me. 😊


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 16, 2017, 06:49:33 am
I am too embarrassed to say how many times a day I drop in. :-[


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 16, 2017, 04:00:11 pm
Hi, guys, thank you so much for your faithful support and for checking so often! To try to try to save you some work and anxiety, I won't be posting any more Coda news on this thread.

Instead, I’ll be contacting you folks on the waiting list directly via email. Be sure to watch for those emails. I’ll try to put the word “Coda” in all the headlines. You should be receiving a couple of them by 4 pm EST today, December 16, 2017, so check your spam folder if you haven’t gotten them by then. If they are in your spam folder, click “Not Spam.”  Unfortunately, you might have to do this more than once.

One of those emails will contain a link to a questionnaire.  If (and only if) you are one of those people who believes that Coda is an instrument you have been desiring for a long time, I’d be very grateful if you would take a few minutes to fill out that questionnaire.

If you are not on the waiting list and would like to be, please use the following link to sign up: http://codaedc.com/contact-form/ .


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Psalterypsue on December 16, 2017, 08:44:15 pm
I love your term  not a Porange.
Looking forward to getting my hands on one.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on December 17, 2017, 02:40:35 pm
So, what kind of time frame are we looking at to make a new batch with the correct settings?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on December 17, 2017, 08:37:30 pm
Is there a specific sender email address we should look for just in case the message is buried in the spam folder?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 18, 2017, 02:12:39 am
The email I got was from info@mountainocarinas.com  I am glad to get the email but now I am checking my email and the site several times a day.  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on December 18, 2017, 03:51:42 am
That's what I thought; but I have checked my spam folder and still can't find an email about CODA so I guess there must be a lot more people on the waiting list than I realized (or a limited number per batch)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: RW_eagle on December 18, 2017, 04:38:58 am
I've been on the wait list for years, and have not seen an email yet. Still waiting for info with baited breath. Glad it will be soon.

Rob W.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: lberriel on December 18, 2017, 04:43:01 pm
Hi, guys, thank you so much for your faithful support and for checking so often! To try to try to save you some work and anxiety, I won't be posting any more Coda news on this thread.

Instead, I’ll be contacting you folks on the waiting list directly via email. Be sure to watch for those emails. I’ll try to put the word “Coda” in all the headlines. You should be receiving a couple of them by 4 pm EST today, December 16, 2017, so check your spam folder if you haven’t gotten them by then. If they are in your spam folder, click “Not Spam.”  Unfortunately, you might have to do this more than once.

One of those emails will contain a link to a questionnaire.  If (and only if) you are one of those people who believes that Coda is an instrument you have been desiring for a long time, I’d be very grateful if you would take a few minutes to fill out that questionnaire.

If you are not on the waiting list and would like to be, please use the following link to sign up: http://codaedc.com/contact-form/ .

Hi, where can I find a video of the Coda.  I'd like to know more about it.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 18, 2017, 06:09:10 pm
As far as I l know Karl hasn't released a video yet.  If you go back a few pages you will find a link to a few audio files of the CODA that you can listen to .


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 18, 2017, 08:41:42 pm
If you are on the waiting list but still haven't received your 1st couple of emails, sorry! Please send me your email (again) at info@MountainOcarinas.com with this headline: I'm on the waiting list but haven't gotten my email updates. Most everyone on the list received the emails on the 16th, but I got a call today from someone who had not. It could be because we inputted the email address incorrectly.

Again, if you are not on the waiting list and would like to be, please use the following link to sign up: http://codaedc.com/contact-form/

As far as videos, soon I'll be sending those to people on the waiting list.  Thank you for your patience.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: EriChanHime on December 18, 2017, 09:15:50 pm
Thank you so much, Karl! I was wondering, but really trying to be patient. I just sent you an email per your posted instructions. :) I joined the waiting list from the same email on 11/14/16.

So very much looking forward to next step in this journey with you all!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: hjordis on December 19, 2017, 02:09:50 am
Have been following and lurking for a very long time and finally signed up for the mailing list. Thanks for the handy form, Karl! I probably would have signed up sooner, but I have a bit of anxiety over initiating contact, so it's much appreciated. Cheering you on to the finish line, however much longer that takes!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 21, 2017, 04:52:54 am
Is their a chance of seeing a photo of the production CODA?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on December 21, 2017, 04:58:22 am
I'll try to send some pictures out to the Coda mailing list in the next couple of days.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 21, 2017, 08:12:41 am
super! merci! ;D
Coda EDC Flute (coming soon)... que veut dire EDC?
"Great! thank you! ;D
Coda EDC Flute (coming soon) ... what does EDC mean?"


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: kypfer on December 21, 2017, 08:25:17 am
" ... what does EDC mean?"

"Eternally Delayed Concept?"

Have a good New Year!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on December 21, 2017, 09:42:16 am
I'll try to send some pictures out to the Coda mailing list in the next couple of days.

I am still wondering which colour(s) actually got produced, was it the original cobalt blue or black or both.  Looking forward to seeing the pictures, Christmas decorations to compliment the Coda optional !


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 21, 2017, 10:53:10 am
" ... what does EDC mean?"

"Eternally Delayed Concept?"

lol, c'est certainement ça!  ;) ;D
"lol, it's certainly that! ;) ;D"


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: cymbrogi on December 21, 2017, 09:05:43 pm
Not sure if you are seriously asking, but EDC means every day carry.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 22, 2017, 10:24:32 am
Not sure if you are seriously asking, but EDC means every day carry.

Thank you Cymbrogi!  :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on December 24, 2017, 09:21:41 am
I'll try to send some pictures out to the Coda mailing list in the next couple of days.

I am still wondering which colour(s) actually got produced, was it the original cobalt blue or black or both.  Looking forward to seeing the pictures, Christmas decorations to compliment the Coda optional !

Having now seen the pictures the answer is BOTH, to me the blue looks perfect for the jeans and T shirt days going to beach or a picnic or just messing about.  The black looks classy and more formal and would be pefect for performing in full evening wear on stage at the Royal Albert Hall for a Coda concert (sorry day dreaming again ! ;D) but I am sure you get the idea.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 24, 2017, 10:57:35 am
je n'arrive pas à me décider  :-\ ...  je vais devoir prendre les deux!  ;D
" I can not decide  :-\ ...  I'll have to take both!  ;D "


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on December 24, 2017, 11:17:05 am
Bien sur.
Moi aussi.

But what if more colours follow........bright orange for sailing or hiking, brown has already happened and then pink, purple and light green for the more fashion aware.
This could get expensive


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 24, 2017, 12:54:20 pm
lol
c'est un vrai problème !!!  :o
Karl nous fera peut-être une petite réduction, à nous ses fidèles compagnons...  ;D
" lol
it's a real problem !!!  :o
Karl will perhaps make a small reduction, to us his faithful companions ...   ;D  "

un bon réveillon de noël à vous, karl et joueurs d'ocarina  :)
"a good Christmas Eve to you, karl and ocarina players"  :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: windjammer on December 25, 2017, 06:30:31 am
Merry Christmas everybody!!! :D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on December 25, 2017, 02:18:31 pm
Merry Christmas 


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on December 25, 2017, 07:31:27 pm
Merry Christmas!!! :)


Title: Has anyone tried an internet search for "CODA FLUTE"?
Post by: kypfer on December 27, 2017, 12:14:09 am
It would seem the description "CODA FLUTE" has been in use for some little while by Pearl Flutes http://pearlflutes.com/index.html ... let's hope that doesn't cause a problem in time to come!


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Roderick on December 30, 2017, 09:39:08 pm
super! merci! ;D
Coda EDC Flute (coming soon)... que veut dire EDC?
"Great! thank you! ;D
Coda EDC Flute (coming soon) ... what does EDC mean?"

It means Every Day Carry  ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on December 31, 2017, 03:16:38 am
I am still getting to know my CODA, but I can say it is is a very good instrument and well worth the wait.  Hang in there guys Karl is working overtime getting things set up for general release.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Llisas on December 31, 2017, 03:51:12 am
I'm sure it's going to be worth the wait, and that the community will help each other with tips, videos, etc (I'll try to help with that).
We all know how much hard work Karl has put on this, I hope that this new year is going to be great for Mountain Ocarinas.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on January 01, 2018, 07:07:46 pm
super! merci! ;D
Coda EDC Flute (coming soon)... que veut dire EDC?
"Great! thank you! ;D
Coda EDC Flute (coming soon) ... what does EDC mean?"

It means Every Day Carry  ;)

thank you Roderick   :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on January 01, 2018, 07:09:41 pm
happy New Year friends!  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Roderick on January 02, 2018, 04:41:28 am
Happy new year everyone!  :D



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Llisas on January 12, 2018, 04:00:33 pm
Are there any news?  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on January 12, 2018, 07:50:43 pm
J'allais poser la même question...  ;D
"I was going to ask the same question...  ;D"


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 13, 2018, 08:07:45 am
You beat me to the question, I was planning on waiting until the 16th which would be exactly one month since the last bit of information (by email).  There must be a lot of us still waiting to get our hands on the Coda and the excellent pictures sent out (again by email) just make me more impatient. It looks really good, sounds good in the samples and I am very impatient to try it out, but there seems to be a total lack of information about what is happening.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on January 16, 2018, 06:55:09 am
I can't speak for Karl, but I do know that he is working on some learning videos, other learning materials,as well as getting a CODA forum ready. Remember Mountains Ocarians is a small outfit so it takes them longer to do stuff than megacorp inc. can crank things out.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 16, 2018, 07:48:57 am
I can't speak for Karl, but I do know that he is working on some learning videos, other learning materials,as well as getting a CODA forum ready. Remember Mountains Ocarians is a small outfit so it takes them longer to do stuff than megacorp inc. can crank things out.

All sound great, but 10 minutes invested in letting customers know what is happening with the production of the Coda would be good too.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on January 16, 2018, 10:56:52 pm
No need to get antsy waiting for updates at this point. We have already seen pictures, heard sound samples, and been informed that there are just a few hoops to jump through before they go into full production. Seems there really isn't much left that would constitute a meaningful update besides just announcing when they are available for sale.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on January 18, 2018, 07:31:29 pm
Hi, guys, I apologize for the lack of updates and for not answering some of your emails. I'm a rather poor multi-tasker. I thought we'd be able to keep all the folks on the waiting list updated by group emails, but it's more complicated than I thought.

Right now, I'm trying to focus on preparing Coda support tools for when Coda is available for purchase. We're working on the new Coda forum and its content: support videos, play-along backing tracks for the Coda book (the book is only suitable for those who read music), and a Learning to Play Coda curriculum for those who don't read music.

I say "trying" because my son was recently married, my wife and I gave up our offices to build an in-law suite for new family members, and now workers are busy renovating the rest of our house. We are continually moving things from one part of the house to another. Since I work out of my home these days, this has been more than a little challenging and distracting. Besides frequent consultations with the builders (who are great guys, by the way!), try recording sound samples or videos when they are pounding nails into the other side of your wall or ripping up a floor down the hall! I'm learning to take advantage of the quiet moments. In fact, the builders left a few minutes ago, so I need to wrap this up quick.

What about Coda?  As many of you know, the first batch of 2,000 instruments was a total loss because they didn't do the second of the ultrasonic welds to specifications. We spent a lot of time after that trying to salvage some, but it was not feasible. That was a huge blow financially (what is 2,000 x $59.95?), but I've been forcing myself to focus on the positive side. It has allowed us more time to get Coda supports ready, which is something I wanted to do all along.

Unfortunately, we used up all our Xylar resin on the first batch and could not obtain more unless we bought about $5,000 worth of material, which was not a realistic option at this point. Believe it or not, it has taken the molders until now to find a readily available alternative to Xylar, one with the same toughness, molding qualities, and FDA foodsafe approval. They just molded a small test batch in clear today, and we plan to double check the ultrasonic welding on Wednesday (I hope!) when their ultrasonic welder should become available.

So when will Coda be available? I don't know. This is a process that involves a lot of waiting. Meanwhile, all we can do is hang in there and try to get more supports in place to help future Coda newbies.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 18, 2018, 08:00:30 pm
Thanks Karl,
the update really is much appreciated, running out of the resin to mold with was not one of the pitfalls I had forseen.

Really looking forward to the day you say that the Codas are ready to go.

In the meantime good luck with the builders.   :)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Shar on January 19, 2018, 05:30:59 am
Thank you, Karl. Sorry about the setback. Congratulations about your son's wedding. The CODA WILL happen.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on January 19, 2018, 11:18:43 am
Hey if you ever need an unlicensed contractor just give me a call


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on January 21, 2018, 03:08:48 pm
What about Coda?  As many of you know, the first batch of 2,000 instruments was a total loss because they didn't do the second of the ultrasonic welds to specifications. We spent a lot of time after that trying to salvage some, but it was not feasible. That was a huge blow financially (what is 2,000 x $59.95?),

How come? It was their mistake; shouldn't they pay for it?


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: withnoe on January 22, 2018, 06:02:28 pm
There must be more to the error than we understand.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: d102 on January 23, 2018, 06:17:49 am
These things are usually complicated and if I was involved I would be very wary of discussing them on a public web site, far too many legal implications.

More important is that tomorrows trial weld goes smoothly and results in a perfectly formed Coda.   I hope that Karl will give us an update if he has a few minutes to spare but know he is very busy getting support material together for when Coda does finally get released.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on January 23, 2018, 09:37:29 pm
Tuna, I just laughed out loud. You said,
Quote
Hey if you ever need an unlicensed contractor just give me a call
By contractor, do you mean to work on my house? Or were you referring to the type of contracts that people sometimes take out to, uh, deal with their, uh, problems?

Sinocelt, I understand how you feel! Obviously, I felt very disappointed and angry right at first, but life has taught me something: we all frequently make mistakes, me included. My goal is to treat others in the way that I would like to be treated. If I want them to be patient with me, I have to be patient with them. In this case, I'm convinced that there was no malice involved but rather a lack of experience with projects such as mine. Besides that, over the years, every time I have gotten really angry with someone in business, I have always regretted my behavior later, so I have tried to train myself to look for positives when things like this happen. In this case, one positive is that the molders are now more determined than ever to be careful, to make up for this, and do what they can to make Coda a success. If I were to damage the vital relationship that I have with them, it might spell the end of Coda.




Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Tuna on January 26, 2018, 12:02:19 am
By contractor, do you mean to work on my house? Or were you referring to the type of contracts that people sometimes take out to, uh, deal with their, uh, problems?


Either. Both.
Though I only have skills and tools to help with the first one, I'd consider the latter if it helps get the Coda in production sooner.  ;D


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on February 06, 2018, 03:10:02 pm
Sinocelt, I understand how you feel! Obviously, I felt very disappointed and angry right at first, but life has taught me something: we all frequently make mistakes, me included.

Sure, but one should take responsibility for one's mistakes, not expect someone else to pay for them.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Karl on February 06, 2018, 04:17:48 pm
Assigning clear responsibility on a project like this can be tough. There is the mold designer, the mold makers, the molders, the ultrasonic welding equipment makers, the complex nature of my design...  This is a challenging project, and I'm trying to see it through to completion. To get there, we've got to work as a team as much as possible.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Sinocelt on February 14, 2018, 07:18:52 pm
Assigning clear responsibility on a project like this can be tough. There is the mold designer, the mold makers, the molders, the ultrasonic welding equipment makers, the complex nature of my design...  This is a challenging project, and I'm trying to see it through to completion. To get there, we've got to work as a team as much as possible.

I admire your restraint. I truly do. I wouldn't be able to bear it, were I you. There's no "team" in my mind when only one person pays the price -- and, worst of all, the one person who is demonstrably not responsible for the f* up.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on February 24, 2018, 05:41:12 pm
Bonjour Karl,
Avez vous des nouvelles à donner à vos fidèles disciples? ;)

"Hello Karl,
Do you have news to give to your faithful followers?" ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on February 24, 2018, 11:10:57 pm
Bonjour Karl,
Avez vous des nouvelles à donner à vos fidèles disciples? ;)

"Hello Karl,
Do you have news to give to your faithful followers?" ;)

I would tell you something, but  a super secrete blood oath, and bands of biker gang enforcers keep me from saying anything. ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: laharl666 on February 25, 2018, 10:47:00 am

I would tell you something, but  a super secrete blood oath, and bands of biker gang enforcers keep me from saying anything. ;)

Ne le dis à personne mais je suis en mission secrète pour préparer l'invasion des CODA sur le territoire français alors j'ai besoin d'informations... chut! :-X ;)
"Do not tell anyone but I'm on a secret mission to prepare the invasion of CODA on French territory so I need information ... shh!" :-X ;)


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on March 13, 2018, 03:43:19 am
I'm looking forward to this amazing instrument and am thankful for all the hard work and attention to detail and quality that Karl is investing in this. I realize that the mistake on the first batch was a setback. So, I'm guessing that when he gets some steps of progress he will at that point possibly give us an update if he has time. I'm willing to be patient, because it's worth the wait.  It's exciting that we're this close.  I'm looking forward to it because I will finally be able to freely share more about it.  I have always recommended Carl's ocarinas and the unmatched customer service.


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: MedicineMan on April 06, 2018, 06:08:30 am
I doubt any of you would remember me but I visited this forum several years ago.
I left active forum participation but I've never left the Mountain Ocarina :)

Occasionally I'd lurk in to see developments/progress on the new instrument.

I think after reading many pages catching up that 2018 just might be the year. I certainly hope so-I've aged a bit since obtaining my first MO.

I did have a thought on the many many ProRange Ocs that were 'mangled' in production.....Karl would it help if we could pre-order the new model even with the understanding that we may never see it.....I've backed many Kickstarters, most came through, but I lost money on several and I knew that possibility going in. Few of us know the financial standing of anyone other than ourselves; for what I know you (Karl) may be a multi-billionaire tooling around with this just as hobby---or maybe you could use our downpayments for food. Either way I'm willing to pay for the new instrument now with no guarantee or promise :)

Just give me a PayPal addy!

Robert



Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on April 07, 2018, 01:15:26 am
I would also be glad to preorder in some way if that would help. I don't know how involved Kickstarter or Indiegogo are, but it seems like something ideal for your situation. 

It wouldn't hurt to have a PayPal link for donations for development for any loyal supporters who might want to just contribute toward the work in progress, because we appreciate your dedication to excellence and quality in your products.

Ethan


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: eatn4energy on April 28, 2018, 03:11:21 am
Please forgive me if this seems like pestering, but I was wondering if there was any status update? Haven't heard anything for a while. We value the hard work you are putting into this project, Carl, and I don't want to pull you away from it, but if there's any quick update you might be able to jot down, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm guessing you are just working through different stages and sometimes have holdups as you have mentioned before.

Thanks,
Ethan


Title: Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
Post by: Harp Player on April 28, 2018, 08:04:22 am
Karl has made some progress.  He posted some stuff on the CODA advisory board forum, but since he didn't post it here I won't either.