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Author Topic: 300 Scales and Arpeggios for MOs (tabs and standard notation)  (Read 15089 times)
Cliff
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« on: March 01, 2011, 05:08:39 pm »

Very nice practice resource:

http://uazu.net/ocarina/scales/

Thanks Jim!


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eskimo
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 05:07:56 pm »

Is it just me or is the F natural missing on the C scale for G MOCs?


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Karl
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 05:25:12 pm »

Quote
Is it just me or is the F natural missing on the C scale for G MOCs?

I'm not sure what you mean, Eskimo.  Could you describe the problem with a little more detail?


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eskimo
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 12:04:39 am »

Karl,
 I'll give it a shot. When I view the C scale under the G ocarina scales category it has a F# and not an (F/F natural) depicted. I will attempt to ascii a facsimile.
   F#       F/Fnatural
 ____     ____
 |    |     |    |
 |    |     |   ∙|
 |    |     |    |
∙|∙   |∙   ∙|∙   |∙
 -----     -----
Clear as mud?
Joe


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Karl
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 09:49:00 pm »

Hi Joe,

If I have understood your question correctly, then hopefully this will help to explain why a G Major scale has an F sharp in it.  If I a haven't, this will be a long and pointless post. Cheesy

In my diagrams below, <==> equals a whole step, and <1/2> equals a half step.

Major Scales are all constructed like this: do <==> re <==> mi <1/2> fa <==> so <==> la <==> ti <1/2> do 

In other words, a whole step separates all the notes in a major scale with two exceptions. There is only a half step separating the 3rd note from the 4th note, and there is only a half step separating the 7th note from the 8th note. Also, there is always a half step between the notes E and F and between the notes B and C. (Why? Because "they" said so! That's why!) 

With this knowledge, you can now construct any major scale. Note that you often have to use sharp signs (#) or flat signs (b) to maintain the relationships described in the paragraph above. (A flat sign lowers pitch by half a step, and a sharp sign raises pitch by half a step.)

Here are a few examples of common major scales:

C Major Scale: C <==> D <==> E <1/2> F <==> G <==> A <==> B <1/2> C   

D Major Scale: D <==> E <==> F# <1/2> G <==> A <==> B <==> C# <1/2> D

Eb Major Scale: Eb <==> F <==> G <1/2> Ab <==> Bb <==> C <==> D <1/2> Eb

F Major Scale: F <==> G <==> A <1/2> Bb <==> C <==> D <==> E <1/2> F

Now, at last, we'll see why a G major scale has an F sharp in it.

G Major Scale: G <==> A <==> B <1/2> C <==> D <==> E <==> F# <1/2> G   Between the 6th note and the 7th note, there must be a full step if we want this scale to be a major scale. But we also know that there is always only a half step between an E and an F. Therefore, we have to change the F to an F sharp (F#) in order to give us a full step between the 6th note and the 7th note of the G major scale.

I hope this helps! If not, please fire back another question!


« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 01:54:36 pm by Karl » Logged
eskimo
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 11:24:30 pm »

Karl,

Thank you for the time you have spent addressing this thread. We are clearly not on the same page though. I am addressing what I think is a (typo) in the scales on the page that some one graciously provided. I know what intervals make up a scale. I make penny whistles that I tune with a guitar tuner and I play them with other instruments so they are (at least close) to concert pitch.

What I am (obviously) doing a very bad job of conveying to you what I believe to be a typo on the scales page under the G Ocarina category there is a red block in line with the major scales with a C on it.

Now if I click on the C scale under the G Ocarina category the diagram that is shown on this page is the diatonic F# (index finger for the left hand on the top hole on th left of the MO) for the G Ocarina playing the diatonic G scale not the F for the C scale which uses (index finger for the left hand on the top hole and the third finger of the right hand on the second hole on the right of the MO).

After I post this I will check the C scale under the C Ocarina and if memory serves me right I believe it is the exact same scale as the C scale under The G ocarina.

Joe


« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 11:36:48 pm by eskimo » Logged
eskimo
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 11:42:00 pm »

Karl,

I click on the hyper link on the top of the C scale Page for G ocarinas and it does not change. It is the same page under C ocarinas and G ocarinas.

I hope this didn't muddy things further.

Joe


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Karl
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 02:44:31 pm »

Ah, now I see! (At least, I think I see.)

First I should mention what I'm sure you already know. I'm not the author of those scales--hence my confusion.  Jim Peters, a generous forum member, was kind enough to put that together on his own initiative.

Just as we do in our fingering charts, Jim treats the G ocarina as a transposing instrument. Thus, the fingerings are exactly the same for scales on both the C and G ocarinas, except for the fingerings for low B and alternate fingerings for low C#/Db.  (As you know, the notes actually sounded on the G oc would be low F# and low G#/Ab.)

So, I don't think there is a typo.

Perhaps this all goes back to my post of a few weeks ago, which I just re-titled, READING MUSIC WITH G AND C OCARINAS: http://www.ocarinaboard.com/bb/index.php?topic=1541.msg12504#msg12504

Let me know if this clears up the confusion.


« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 08:39:09 pm by Karl » Logged
eskimo
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 10:49:33 pm »

Tis a Fell and nefarius scheme you've devised Master. I'm still trying to figure out what use the G ocarina side is to me (a newbie who owns only a G ocarina). The only thing I can figure is to get my crayons out and make up my own scales.

I'll check out your video on transmorgif...er...transpositional instruments.

Thanks for your time.
Joe


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eskimo
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2011, 06:40:51 pm »

Karl,

When do get time to make ocarinas with all the writing you do? I read the post you mentioned above and it clarified your approach, but in the group of musicians I play with the guitar is god almost and you play in the key the guitarist is playing or you sit and listen.

Thanks for your time on this thread. I think all of my questions have been answered.

eskimo


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kypfer
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« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2011, 09:12:27 pm »

Quote
in the group of musicians I play with the guitar is god almost and you play in the key the guitarist is playing or you sit and listen
... which is fine if you want to play with the guitarist. The trick is, is to get good enough on your instrument so's the guitarist wants to play with you, he'll soon change key to suit  Wink


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"I'm playing all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order."
eskimo
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 04:39:45 pm »

Thanks Kypher. Actually most guitarists I play with don't know a fig about music theory so it doesn't help me one way or another.

Karl, do you think there would be any interest in a (NON-TRANSPOSED) G ocarina version of these scales. I am thinking about working them out for my own benefit. I would be glad to make them available when I get around to it. Grin

eskimo


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Karl
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 02:57:02 am »

Quote
Karl, do you think there would be any interest in a (NON-TRANSPOSED) G ocarina version of these scales. I am thinking about working them out for my own benefit. I would be glad to make them available when I get around to it.

Eskimo Joe (aka Snake Charmer), I honestly can't say what level of interest there would be. You see, I'm not a big scales guy myself because I've gone about learning scales in another way. Here's my method. I like to take songs that I learn to play in one key and then play them by ear in different keys, i.e., I start the same song on a different note than I usually start it on. This has gotten me very comfortable at playing by ear and at playing the common scales. (Some of you may have noticed that, in our music books, I suggest to people that they try certain songs starting on different notes.)  Furthermore, as a young whipper-snapper learning to play the saxophone, I wasn't a big fan of the scales that my teacher made me play. And since virtually everyone learns to play the ocarina without a personal teacher, I am a bit hesitant to suggest potentially tedious practice exercises to people who are new to the ocarina and who have sometimes never played an instrument before. Let them make music, not scales, I say!

With that said, I know that you and others appreciate the value of scales, and I respect that greatly! Do you think there is enough interest to warrant making Non-Transposed G ocarina scales? If so, I'd be very grateful to you if you would create them!

Whatever the case, I want to send you a free copy of our Favorite Carols in Easy Keys book because it provides a quick, easy method for learning to read music with your ocarina as a G non-transposing instrument. So, email me your address, and I'll mail you the book. (Karl@MountainOcarinas.com)

By the way, Eskimo, I thank you (and so many others on this forum) for your helpful attitude!


« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 01:52:59 pm by Karl » Logged
eskimo
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2011, 01:06:43 am »

Karl,

What a generous offer. I'd love to check out your book and I'll get back with you on that. I am picking up momentum on learning songs (I probably can play over 100) by ear with the MOC and when I can afford it I plan to buy the C MOC.

I've never had instrument lessons. So I just figured the you comitted scales to memory to get good. I've only been playing penny whistle for 2+ years and playing by ear is a totally different world than I thought. I figure out songs by modes and intervals and not by memorization. Every time I play a song its almost like the first time, figuring it out on the fly. The hardest part is the first note and they all fall together like dominoes after that.

I do feel my fingers tap dancing on certain notes so I suspect there's an accidental under there that I'm missing.

Thanks

Eskimo


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DaveBj
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2011, 10:58:44 pm »

Holy workout, Batman, what a valuable resource this is!!!

I am a euphonium player in my other musical life, and over the years I have come to realize the importance of having the scales coming easily to the fingers.  I'm just starting the MOc, and I'm going to be coming to Jim's site a LOT.

DaveBj


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