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Author Topic: Notes out of range.  (Read 7298 times)
BlueJack
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« on: January 12, 2013, 10:30:39 pm »

There are a number of tunes I play on my concertina that I would like to play on my MOC G or C or both; but, it seems there are always one or two notes out of range no matter to what key I transpose. Is there some way around this, some rule of thumb (I'm not a musician but it seems I have a lot of thumbs)?

Please? Undecided


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Traeak
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 12:23:07 am »

please be more specific.  what notes are you trying to hit with which mo?  With practice its possible to range extend both mos on top and bottom.


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Poly G&C, Warmstone G
BlueJack
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 06:13:41 am »

On the MOG that would be the high F or even G and on MOC that would be the same plus the low B. I've tried over blowing on the high notes but that just makes them shrill. The low B on MOC is supposed to be reachable with less breath but that just seems to lower the volume and not the pitch.


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kypfer
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 09:14:11 am »

Quote
it seems there are always one or two notes out of range no matter to what key I transpose
... unfortunately many instruments have a limited range, some moreso than others. The Scottish bagpipe, for example, has only nine notes. In some instances playing the required note(s) an octave lower (or higher) will sound OK (that's called "folding"). It can be rewarding to search around for alternative arrangements of a tune you are having problems with. Many tunes have been adapted over the years to cater for similar problems to those you are experiencing. The trick is to accept the limitations of the instrument and enjoy it for what it can play, not be disappointed for what it can't.  Wink



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"I'm playing all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order."
Pat Anderson
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 03:13:29 pm »

The low B is a designed note for the MO-C, no special technique is required, it is just how you blow. Note the MO-G actually has an extra tone hole for the low F#.  Practice gets the low B every time, I have no problem with it any longer.  The A below the B was my missing note, and I now am getting it some time but not consistently yet. That involves tipping the MO-C up and moving your upper lip partway onto the fipple so it is just partially covered - it is tricky but a lot of folks here play it consistently. It is the opposite of the acute bend on an ocarina with the fipple on the bottom.  The high F some people get regularly - Ubizmo for example - and even perhaps F#, not sure about the high G, I personally get apoplexy trying to hit the high F by overblowing. 

But within the range low A to high E (and maybe F), you can play thousands and thousands of tunes, and the ones that are in the wrong range as written can be transposed to the right range.  ABC is fantastic for that, I use EasyABC on a Mac but there is a Windows version as well.  Or you can play a section of a tune an octave higher or an octave lower than as written - I have a tune that I want to work on that is mostly in range but has just a middle section that goes way out of range so taking it down an octave seems to be the best plan.

Now, the ultimate answer - the forthcoming ProRange Mountain Ocarina, which is real but uncertain as to availability date, with a two octave range.  It will be C5 to C7, and we will just have to see if the same techniques can extend that range by two or three notes, certainly the lip over the fipple ought to get a note or so lower, and overblowing a note or so higher, but nobody but Karl and Cliff know for sure. I can hardly wait to hear this in Ubizmo's hands (and mine, but I am not really a player, more a wannabe having great fun).

On the MOG that would be the high F or even G and on MOC that would be the same plus the low B. I've tried over blowing on the high notes but that just makes them shrill. The low B on MOC is supposed to be reachable with less breath but that just seems to lower the volume and not the pitch.


« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 03:15:24 pm by Pat Anderson » Logged
Traeak
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 05:33:26 pm »

Work some with a tuner if you can.  On the MOG I easily get an extra note on the high side, I changed my fingering accordingly.  The MOC?  That high note is very hard to get.  ubizmo I think modded his MOC by slightly opening one of the holes to hit that easier.

Getting an extra half step on the low end is harder and it's not a quick transition note since it does require bending the ocarina.  Both the G and C are about the same (for me)

In general you'll need to spend more time getting used to the breath curve on the 'C', it's a bit less intuitive than the 'G'.

If you really must have the higher range, either wait for the prorange or opt for a multichamber ceramic transverse.  You'll find more info on the ocarina network forums for those.  And yes these are a bit spendier than a nice hardwood MO.


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Poly G&C, Warmstone G
BlueJack
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 11:00:54 pm »

Quote
Now, the ultimate answer - the forthcoming ProRange Mountain Ocarina, which is real but uncertain as to availability date, with a two octave range.  It will be C5 to C7,/quote]

Isn't that awfully high? Aren't we now in the MOC C4 to E5 range and a bit higher for the MOG?

I've been using Melody Assistant for most of my stuff. Transposes very quickly and exports ABC. I then paste the ABC file into
http://mandolintab.net/abcconverter.php that will give me tabs in a nice PDF file with the standard staff notation. A different tab converter would be nice as, I suspect, the tab maker referenced elsewhere in this forum doesn't have a lot of extra stuff.

I'll just keep looking for work arounds. I notice that the two octaves on my 10 button Cajun "C" accordion can accommodate more transpositions to eliminate the accidentals in other keys.

 Thanks for your help and comments. I'll just keep poking around.



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Harp Player
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 04:09:30 am »

Actually on the MO C the low C is a C5 it is just played like it is a C4.


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ubizmo
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I couldn't fail to disagree with you less.


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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 03:33:09 pm »

Work some with a tuner if you can.  On the MOG I easily get an extra note on the high side, I changed my fingering accordingly.  The MOC?  That high note is very hard to get.  ubizmo I think modded his MOC by slightly opening one of the holes to hit that easier.

I did mod my hardwood C to get the high F in tune. I enlarged the left thumb hole just a tiny bit. This has the effect of making the standard high Eb fingering sound sharp, however. Since I seldom use that fingering, it doesn't bother me. I don't have a warmstone C, but I've played a couple of them and noticed that for some reason it's easier to play the high F without modding. I have no idea why this should be so, but it seems pretty unmistakable to me.

On the G models, I find no difficulty at all playing the high F (concert C); it doesn't feel the least be "forced" to me. In fact, I find it more of a challenge to play the top note as an E, as per the design of the MO, so I very seldom try to do so.


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4efs
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 07:31:19 pm »


For me as my musical skill unfolds I find the range of the MO is less and less of a limitation. I can now frequently transpose on sight and find that loads of tunes just don't cover that broad of a range. So just going up or down a half a step or playing the C as a G or vice versa etc. allows me to play what I will happily.   With practice you will find the extra notes more and more easily. Playing with a tuner helps loads even with the low B on the C MO. Good Luck!


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"The real secret of success is enthusiasm." -Walter Chrysler
DaveBj
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 01:35:11 pm »

There has already good advice for bending the high F and underblowing for the low B (or Bb on the MOG), and I have nothing to add there.  But sometimes the only thing you can do is to re-write the tune.  Don't be afraid to do this; the pros do it all the time, when they are playing a piece that was written for an instrument that has a wide range (f'rinstance, cello) on an instrument that with a narrower range (f'rinstance, euphonium; I'm thinking specifically of Steven Mead's performance of "Kol Nidrei," a cello piece, on the euphonium; check it out on Youtube -- if you know the cello performance, you'll hear where Steven rewrote it to keep it in range.

Just as an example, suppose there is a 16th-note run starting on the high C that goes |CDEF GAGF EFED C|.  A high F can be reached by bending, but not in a 16th-note run, and the Gs and the A are out of the question.  But you could play |CDED EDED EEED C|.  That's just one possibility; another is |CBCD EDED CDED C|.  Just mess around . . . err . . . I mean, improvise, pick something that sounds good, and stick with it.

DaveBj


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Treblemaker
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 04:58:14 am »

There are a number of tunes I play on my concertina that I would like to play on my MOC G or C or both; but, it seems there are always one or two notes out of range no matter to what key I transpose. Is there some way around this, some rule of thumb (I'm not a musician but it seems I have a lot of thumbs)?

Please? Undecided
If you are playing a piece of music that has a high G in it, try dropping an octave and play the G there. with a little improvisation it can sound really smooth.
Try this website- Recommended by Pat Anderson-   http://www.wikifonia.org/node/1637#/C/0/1
they have a setting where you can transpose any of the songs they give music for (and there are hundreds) into any key- which enables you to raise or lower the sheet music according to your preference.   Cheesy


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Harp Player
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 10:00:06 pm »


If you are playing a piece of music that has a high G in it, try dropping an octave and play the G there.
[/quote]



Thanks for that reminder.  It is one on those things I used to know but forgot about over the years.


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