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Author Topic: Getting constructive criticism  (Read 9736 times)
ubizmo
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« on: December 26, 2008, 03:37:49 pm »

I suggest setting up a separate section of the forum (or a subsection) for this purpose.  There, it's understood that when we post video links (or audio links), we're looking for constructive criticism.  And when we post the links, we can say something about our own perception of our performance, what we're trying to achieve, how long we've been playing, and so on.  Call it "Teaching and Learning" or something of the sort.

The reason for doing it in a separate section is that some of us (me, for example) sometimes post videos that we did on a whim, and we know they're rubbish, and don't really want to waste anybody's time asking for criticism.

ubi


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Spatolo
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2008, 03:46:06 pm »

Well this could be a road, one other (perhaps simpler) can be stating this with a line in the video's description.

Lines like "any constructive critics will be welcome" or "I took this clip very quickly, I know it sucks but I published it nevertheless because I had fun" are pretty self-explicative.

Just a quick though. Any road can be OK to me.

EDIT: just dropping a line like that in the video section, when presenting the video to others, can be a choice, rather or in addiction to stating that in the youtube page of the video itself.




« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 03:51:05 pm by Spatolo » Logged
Cliff
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2008, 03:52:55 pm »

I think this is a great idea. A special way to request feedback. It would be no problem to create a separate board for this. Maybe it would make sense to start out with a "tag" in the title or body of the post like "Feedback requested" or something of the like. And if there seem to be enough of these as to warrant a new board I'll just create a board at that time and move the appropriate topics there. How does that sound?


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Spatolo
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 04:44:06 pm »

Well... I've thinked again at this and my humble opinion is that the whole board is too spreaded already. I mean, a video could fit in the "video" section, in the "journey" one, and now even in the "give me suggestions" one. I personally think that it would be too much, and that creating a thread in the video section could be enough. But, is not that critic anyhow. Every option could serve the purpose after all.


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Spatolo
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 04:53:33 pm »

Also, the "interesting experience" board can be a nice place to post videos of those experience themselfe if one has took any video of them.

I'm starting to think, relating also to the other thread, if it makes any sense the whole "video" section anymore  Grin rather than posting any video where more appropriate.
Uh, who knows...


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ubizmo
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 05:51:16 pm »

Well... I've thinked again at this and my humble opinion is that the whole board is too spreaded already. I mean, a video could fit in the "video" section, in the "journey" one, and now even in the "give me suggestions" one. I personally think that it would be too much, and that creating a thread in the video section could be enough. But, is not that critic anyhow. Every option could serve the purpose after all.

I thought about that too.  Of course, there's nothing to prevent links to videos from being posted in more than one location, if appropriate.  There may be more sections in the forum already than are needed.  But my thought is that teaching/learning is a special kind of activity that deserves its own space, perhaps part of the "How can we help you succeed?" concept.  I suspect there are plenty of people who don't mind criticism here, but prefer not to have it posted on Youtube or Vimeo.  An advantage to having a special section for this is that those people who choose not to participate in it can still learn by browsing the videos in the section and reading the comments, and it'll all be in one place.

ubi


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Spatolo
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 01:03:45 am »

"teaching/learning is a special kind of activity that deserves its own space" sold me.
Definitely right.
I remembered when I dared to humbly noticing the breaks in your first videos (while loving and admiring your creativity, your ideas and your performance overall) nevertheless I'm a lousy player (after all, this does not mean that I cannot be a good listener) and I hoped that it was a tiny bit of help of you in any way.


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ubizmo
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 03:24:05 am »

Everyone can learn and everyone can teach.  When we play an instrument (or sing), the hardest thing is to hear what other people hear.  Even when we listen to our own recordings, it's hard.  It's the same reason why publishers will always need editors.  When we read our own words we don't notice the words that need to be deleted, or the words that need to be added.  Everything looks fine.  You noticed the breaks and then I noticed them again too.  Some things need to be learned over and over.  That's the way it is in music, and most other things too, I think.

It's not only sound, either.  In one of Dan's videos, I noticed he had his left pinky arched back and curled up, and I mentioned it in a comment (probably a bad idea).  It didn't make a sound, but I knew that keeping a finger curled up like that could only cause tension that would slow the others down, so it would be a good idea to break that habit.  He was probably unaware that he was doing it.

We all bring different skills and experiences to the table.  I've been an amateur woodwind player my whole life.  So I know the principle of no extra finger movements.  You keep them close to the holes and only move them enough to cover and uncover the holes cleanly.  You've played the whistle longer than I have, and you noticed what a whistler would notice: the "gaps."  And we have all other kinds of musicians here, as well as people who just love music, and all can hear different things.  That's why everyone can learn, and everyone can teach.

ubi


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Lord Oblivion
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2008, 10:40:27 am »

You keep them close to the holes and only move them enough to cover and uncover the holes cleanly.

That's one thing I noticed. Many people take their fingers off really far from the holes in their videos. As a guitarist I've always been told to keep my fingers as close to the strings as possible when they are lifted and I try to apply the same with the ocarina (I think I take them too far when I play high notes really fast though).

And about criticism, it sure is very welcome for me! Don't worry about being harsh; I can't be offended. And if you do give criticism to someone else, just saying something like: I don't mean to bash, but you should work on "X" technique; or something like that might show the person you just want to help.


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Secretagentdan
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 03:59:33 am »

That's essentially why I record myself in various stages of my progress on the ocarina. I watch the old videos and I can see what needs work and what I am doing right. I think the main thing is like someone previously mentioned, that you should specify if you want people to critique you more closely. Not everyone wants to hear such a critique, I'm a harsh enough critic of my own playing honestly though I do appreciate tips and etc. Smiley
   However if someone is new to making videos of the ocarina it might make them not want to post anymore. It just depends on the individual though.                    Peace, Dan


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Spatolo
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 11:32:58 pm »

You keep them close to the holes and only move them enough to cover and uncover the holes cleanly.


A BIG difference I noticed between ocarina and other winds (recorder, flute, tin whistle) is that the ocarina is BY FAR the most sensitive to HOW MUCH you raise your fingers off their holes. Try to play a high C just raising your top fingers some millimeters from the body of the instrument. Then, still blowing, raise them all as high as you can.
Don't you notice a BIG difference?
I mean that you can fine tune the ocarina with the fingers too, if you are willing to move them further from the body.
Can that make sense in some circumstance?


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ubizmo
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2009, 12:28:32 am »

A BIG difference I noticed between ocarina and other winds (recorder, flute, tin whistle) is that the ocarina is BY FAR the most sensitive to HOW MUCH you raise your fingers off their holes. Try to play a high C just raising your top fingers some millimeters from the body of the instrument. Then, still blowing, raise them all as high as you can.
Don't you notice a BIG difference?
I mean that you can fine tune the ocarina with the fingers too, if you are willing to move them further from the body.
Can that make sense in some circumstance?

I wouldn't be able to control it well enough, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.  I think a few millimeters is too close, but a centimeter or two is plenty of space.  Too or three inches (Who needs metric?) is too much, even though there is plenty of damning video evidence of me doing exactly that.

A particular thing that I notice is the importance of not taking the thumbs too far from the holes.  If I move them too far away, I tend to rock the whole ocarina when I bring them back to the holes, and that tends to throw off the next notes.

There's a lot to learn about this little instrument.

zimobu


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Secretagentdan
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 01:52:15 am »

I think that's why I tend to move my fingers really far away so I don't get weird sounding notes. Need to work on that Smiley


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