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Author Topic: About Bflat  (Read 3721 times)
Spatolo
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« on: October 25, 2008, 12:46:42 PM »

I reached Unit 8 of the Curriculum and I'm formally facing the Bflat. Actually I play some tunes with it and I adopted the alternate fingering, it looked simpler both to remember and to finger.

BUT, that's called alternate. It's "main" fingering is the other one, in the curriculum and in the booklet. Mr. Ocarina (I mean, Karl) in a video says that he usually use the alternate one nevertheless.

So I'm a bit confused. I can imagine that in some tunes one can come more handy than the other and vice-versa; but in the end, there is a main one (with a big "tablature") and one named "alternate" with a smaller picture.

What's the story behind them?

Thank you Cliff (and everybody else which will share their experience of course  Tongue Tongue)


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Spatolo
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 12:59:44 PM »

Some more toughts: definitely, at least playing "yankee doodle" of unit 8, I find it easier the alternate fingering for the Bflat. The pitch of both fingering sounds so close to me that I could never distinguish between them.

Trying to play that tune fast makes it hard to move the right pinky in it's supporting position while playing high notes (this is another matter indeed). A video of Karl playing it, first slowly then gradually faster, would be great to see how to moves fingers, expecially that non-playing one (the position of others are wrote on the scores!).  Dehehe. Grin


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Cliff
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 03:43:53 PM »

Spatolo, I think you have the right idea. Due to the context of a particular song (notes before/after) it might be easier to use an alternate fingering. Karl uses them quite a bit, especially in ornaments. Rule of thumb would be that if you have an alternate fingering that sounds fine (even if not listed as an "official" alternate fingering) and it's easier to play than the "textbook" fingering... go for it. If it sounds good, do it.

Sidenote (feel free to ignore): Alternate fingerings are also very common for ornaments like a cut or roll where you might be playing the next note higher. Since the "ornamented" notes are usually very quick the "correct" pitch is even less important/more forgiving.

Thoughts from anyone else??


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Secretagentdan
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 05:11:27 PM »

Is it a possibility that you folks could post a pdf of alternate fingerings as well as how to play all notes chromatically. I've found a few different fingerings on my own through my own experimentation but I'm still curious which ones (cliff and Carl) and anyone else uses. Thanks! Smiley


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Cliff
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 05:44:50 PM »

Dan,

You can download the fingering charts at:

http://www.mountainsocarina.com/starting.htm#1

There's 2 links in lesson 1. It has the standard chromatic and diatonic fingerings.

I'll get back on the alternate fingerings.

Cliff


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Spatolo
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 06:50:17 PM »

This reminds me my first trys with the chromatic scale. I still have some problems with it. I remembered that I thought in the first that it would make more sense to have all the fingerings in sequence; not them separated between diatonics and chromatics.
Actually, I can find a reason for that; for sure. To introduce the basics, while leaving the "advanced" topic out. Anyhow, I think that having them all in sequence, at least as an option (*hint* on a PDF file *hint*) would make sense; the "advanced" players would find them in sequence rather than on a fully separate line. My opinion (and feature request, yes  Roll Eyes )


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almightybunghole
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 08:20:15 PM »

I second that. I'm going to try and learn through a full chromatic kinda thing... not entirely sure how to say it, but in sections. Like 5 half and full tones, memorize that bunch, then compound on that as I move up. My Holiday carols book (very metal of me) has them on separate pages.
Having them on separate pages makes it a bit tougher to understand the sequence in fingering changes.


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ubizmo
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 09:07:40 PM »

Spatolo, I think you have the right idea. Due to the context of a particular song (notes before/after) it might be easier to use an alternate fingering. Karl uses them quite a bit, especially in ornaments. Rule of thumb would be that if you have an alternate fingering that sounds fine (even if not listed as an "official" alternate fingering) and it's easier to play than the "textbook" fingering... go for it. If it sounds good, do it.

Sidenote (feel free to ignore): Alternate fingerings are also very common for ornaments like a cut or roll where you might be playing the next note higher. Since the "ornamented" notes are usually very quick the "correct" pitch is even less important/more forgiving.

Thoughts from anyone else??

I only just now took a look at a fingering chart for my ocarina.  I knew the basic scale was linear, and I worked out the accidentals in a few minutes by trial and error.  I now know that some of the fingerings I use are alternates but...it doesn't matter.


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rweagle
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 01:38:08 AM »

Regarding the alternate Bb fingering, I have grown accustomed to always using that fingering.  It just seems more natural to me.

Rob W.


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ubizmo
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 12:02:06 AM »

The alternate, one-finger, Bb sounds a tad sharp to me.  I use it on quick passages, but if I have to linger on the note, I don't use it.

ubi


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Spatolo
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 06:59:20 PM »

The alternate, one-finger, Bb sounds a tad sharp to me.  I use it on quick passages, but if I have to linger on the note, I don't use it.

ubi

I find the fingerings to sound almost idenctical. But we should remember that we mainly play different instruments! I'd bet you had your C ocarina in your mind while writing that; while what I said is about my G ones.  Wink


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ubizmo
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2008, 07:37:36 PM »

The alternate, one-finger, Bb sounds a tad sharp to me.  I use it on quick passages, but if I have to linger on the note, I don't use it.

ubi

I find the fingerings to sound almost idenctical. But we should remember that we mainly play different instruments! I'd bet you had your C ocarina in your mind while writing that; while what I said is about my G ones.  Wink

You're right; I didn't even test it on the G.  I should do so, so that I can't be accused of neglecting the poor G.

ubi


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Secretagentdan
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 08:19:46 PM »

C'mon Ubi, show some love to that lonely little G! Smiley


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ubizmo
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 01:24:25 AM »

Well, I've tested it now, and I note that Laurent has also commented on this in another thread.  I find the alternate Bb to be a little sharp on the poly G as well as the poly and hardwood Cs.  I also agree with Laurent that the standard Bb fingering sounds a little sharp to me, but not as sharp as the alternate.  For me, both thumbs and both index fingers give me the truest Bb on both instruments.  I never use the standard one in the fingering chart, and, as I mentioned above, I only use the alternate if I need to "hit and run" on that Bb.

ubi


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Laurent
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2008, 08:35:02 AM »

I repost my comment from the http://www.ocarinaboard.com/bb/index.php?topic=108.msg1538#msg1538 (unofficial alternate fingering thread) here:

On both the C and G polycarb, I find that the official Bb is really to high. I use the XX|XOOO|XOOO version, which sounds right to my ear. The alternate XX|OXOO|OOOO is also too high to me. Why is this note so "out of tune" in both the official and alternate version? Is it a pressure problem?


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