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Author Topic: Loving Your Neighbor Means Controlling Your Sound  (Read 74754 times)
Karl
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2009, 01:54:49 am »

Thanks for the input, Tom!

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My room does not absorb much sound at all;
Tom, if you play for very long in a small loud room, try some low cost musician's earplugs.  I carry a set in my pocket ever since I went to a St. Patrick's Day dance that caused my ears to ring for a few days. http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx 

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The baffles reflect some of the sound waves onto themselves, and when troughs and peaks meet, they cancel.
Along a similar note, the active noise canceling headphones use the same idea but instead of baffles they record the sound, invert it, and play it back.  So you could use the noise canceler in the box, and you can use the headphones to listen.
Good suggestion, Tom. At this point, I haven't been able to see how we could affordably apply that technology here, but the seed is planted, so who knows about in the future? I'm wide open to input...

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I am also wondering, did you do any tests with no weighted vinyl lining or foam, with just the box?
A hollow box with no foam is pretty loud up close. (A sax projects a lot of sound from the bell, but ocarinas project sound in all directions.) Early on, I tested a double walled cardboard box with only heavy acoustic foam and no layer of weighted vinyl. The results were significantly quieter than an ocarina outside of the box but nowhere near as quiet as our latest version of the Ocbox, which is very quiet.  The weighted vinyl really helps as does using heavy tape to seal any gaps (sound leaks) where the vinyl pieces come together.  Per your request, I'll do some quick tests this week using only acoustic foam (without the weighted vinyl) in our sturdy plastic OcBox. Also, I plan to test an adaptation to the Ocbox that should make it even more silent. If someone wanted to make the box louder, there are pieces that one could quickly remove.

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I like OcBox over OcsBox.
  Thanks for the feedback.  I agree with you!


« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 02:02:46 am by Karl » Logged
BeRightBart
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You can either agree with me, or be wrong.


« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2009, 06:52:47 pm »

I'm reeeeeeaally looking foward to be able to play everytime i want it. (I may not play at my home if my parents are at home 2)
a few questions: I saw in the video that it was quite heavy, Does that means there will be more shipping costs? and what about the price itself? I'm afraid that it will be quite shocking. (not that you're expensive or anything, but it sounds pretty expensive.)

I'll be sure that a lot of people will be entoushiast like me! It's a brilliant idea and i hope it will come trough!


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Ben
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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2009, 07:50:12 pm »

Would dulling part of the fipple edge reduce the volume? I hate the idea of messing with an instrument, but if it works, it could be done on a poly at far less cost and much greater portability than the Ocbox.


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Spatolo
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« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2009, 08:05:48 pm »

Would dulling part of the fipple edge reduce the volume? I hate the idea of messing with an instrument, but if it works, it could be done on a poly at far less cost and much greater portability than the Ocbox.

I think you risk to get a breathier sound, and perhaps the reduction in volume could not be consistent through the scale. At least, that's what I experienced with the straw, which in the ends affect how the air hits the fipple. Anyhow, if I remember well I asked for this and I was replied that Karl experimented with that already and that it's not recommended. But again, we were discussing about "mellowness" of the sound rather than volume. So again...

KARL, WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF DULLING THE FIPPLE EDGE?

Duh.

 Grin


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Karl
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« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2009, 08:09:06 pm »

Bart, thanks for the feedback and for asking some very good questions.  I don't have all the answers yet, but I'm making encouragingly quick progress on the OcBox.  I'll continue to post news as I know more.

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I saw in the video that it was quite heavy, Does that mean there will be more shipping costs? and what about the price itself? I'm afraid that it will be quite shocking.

For now, I can only tell you that I am very focused on keeping the cost down. The OcBox is such a useful idea, but it won't be that helpful if most folks can't afford one.  Also, I'm hoping to offer a few OcBox options: a fully assembled OcBox; a less costly OcBox kit that you assemble yourself; and some type of free, do-it-yourself plans.


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Karl
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« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2009, 09:23:49 pm »

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KARL, WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF DULLING THE FIPPLE EDGE?

I am with you guys in your desire to find a simple solution to playing quietly when we need to.  I'm afraid that dulling the fipple edge is not the answer, however.  I'll force myself to give a short answer here.  Cheesy

The design, precision, and dimensions of the windway and labium (fipple edge) are crucial to proper tuning and to how well an ocarina speaks.  If you were to change the size of the fipple window by filing away at the labium (in order to dull it), the whole ocarina would sound sharp and the instrument would no longer be in tune with itself (the lower notes would rise in pitch more than the upper notes).

Also, dulling the fipple edge on Mountain Ocarinas would make for fuzzier high notes, and you'd have to blow louder to get clear sound, which would not make the instrument quieter. Other methods of making the instrument quieter tend to yield a less expressive instrument that requires delicate blowing, especially on low notes.

When I was away a week or so ago, I played in two public venues.  In both situations, I was thankful that my ocarinas had sufficient volume for public performance and that I could play them with energy and expressiveness. I don't want to lose that. 


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onewhohopes
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« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2009, 02:39:11 am »

Thanks for the link to those earplugs!  Smiley

I was looking around Target the other day for those cheap little foam things, but now I am definitely getting these ETY-plugs.  I had no idea that they made high fidelity earplugs that don't muffle sounds.  I've found a store in my city that carries this exact brand, and I'm probably getting them tomorrow.  These would be excellent for concerts, too.  I went to a Christian metal concert last  spring without any ear protection, and I regretted it afterward.  My main reason was that it muffles the sound, so these will be great.  Smiley

Now that I think of it, that baffles idea would probably not work. Guns always make the same sound, so I think the suppressors are designed to cancel out that one noise.  The ocarina has several sounds, so it would probably be impossible to get it to work with baffles.  Sad

I am looking forward to seeing where this project ends up. 

-Tom


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Vivu Esperanto!
Karl
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« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2009, 02:51:47 am »

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I went to a Christian metal concert last  spring without any ear protection, and I regretted it afterward.  My main reason was that it muffles the sound, so these will be great.


Yeah, it's too bad, but just about any amplified live music these days is too loud for comfort or for ear health. Those etymotic earplugs come with a tiny, durable case, so I keep a set in my left front pocket.

I'm pretty happy with this week's slightly improved OcBox, so now I'm searching my mind and the net for an affordable, travel stand for it.


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Spatolo
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« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2009, 06:03:36 pm »

When I was away a week or so ago, I played in two public venues.  In both situations, I was thankful that my ocarinas had sufficient volume for public performance and that I could play them with energy and expressiveness. I don't want to lose that. 

well I think that ben was talking about a distinct, practice ocarina designed only for the purpose of playing quiter. But I'm sure that it would not work a tenth well than the Oc-In-The-Box, although it would be more easy to carry.


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onewhohopes
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« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2009, 06:19:17 pm »

Today I went to this impressive music store in town called Sweetwater; I found that they carried these Etymolic earplugs by searching online last night.  I just finished practicing for about a half hour with them in, and I must say I am very impressed with them.  I can play like I'm in a concert hall in my tiny room, and I think it is helping me to get clearer high notes.  I think that me not fearing for my ears lets me use the right pressure on the high d and e.  Smiley

Now that I can play full volume, I might need the OcBox more so I don't destroy anyone else's hearing.  Wink

-Tom


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Karl
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« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2009, 07:02:42 pm »

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well I think that ben was talking about a distinct, practice ocarina designed only for the purpose of playing quiter. But I'm sure that it would not work a tenth well than the Oc-In-The-Box, although it would be more easy to carry.


Yes, Spatolo, I understand what you guys are saying. I've experimented in the past with trying to make quieter practice ocarinas, but I've not been happy with the results.  They were unsatisfying instruments to play.  I don't want to say that we'll never offer such an instrument.  Maybe we will some day, but it's not as easy as just dulling the fipple edge (or some of the other things that I've tried). When you make an instrument that has to be blown softly and carefully, it changes the whole playing experience. And an ocarina would have to be awfully quiet before you could play it confidently in a hotel room.

As far as the OcBox is concerned, I'm sure it's not the ideal solution for everybody.  First of all, it's something extra to have to buy or build. Also, even though it is portable, it's not something you can stick in a pocket or wear around your neck. (And overseas shipping has recently become more expensive, which is not good news for folks in Italy. Sad)

After I "live" with OcBox some more and put it through all its paces, I want to get a few out to some beta testers for feedback and suggestions. Personally, I love that the OcBox allows me to play my ocarina across the table from family members without interrupting their movie, their computer tutorial, their phone call...  

By the way, I now have a sturdy, portable stand for the OcBox, so I should be making another video in the next couple of days.  


« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:07:56 pm by Karl » Logged
Karl
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« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2009, 07:06:49 pm »

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Today I went to this impressive music store in town called Sweetwater; I found that they carried these Etymotic earplugs by searching online last night.  I just finished practicing for about a half hour with them in, and I must say I am very impressed with them.

That's great, Tom!  The link to those is http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx   I'm posting the link again because it's a good idea to wear something like these if you practice any instrument for long periods of time.


« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:15:08 pm by Karl » Logged
Spatolo
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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2009, 07:23:57 pm »

As far as the OcBox is concerned, I'm sure it's not the ideal solution for everybody.  First of all, it's something extra to have to buy or build. Also, even though it is portable, it's not something you can stick in a pocket or wear around your neck. (And overseas shipping has recently become more expensive, which is not good news for folks in Italy. Sad)

Well... actually I was thinking about building it myself. While I never created any musical instrument, I love DIY and I'm a bit practical with tools and I like to dirt my hands and get (simple) things done. I think that that box can something I can afford (technically, and I hope to find the prime matter not too expensively too). Thanks!


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Karl
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« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2009, 10:29:16 pm »

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Well... actually I was thinking about building it myself.

Absolutely, Spatolo!  I appreciate you saying that.  The OcBox is something that we can all build ourselves.  I look forward to seeing the Italian model!

In fact, one of the things that was a bit overwhelming to me at first about this project is that there are so many different ways to achieve the same goal.  As we share our ideas and post our plans, I'm sure we'll continue to perfect this idea.

Personally, I've narrowed my focus for now to a fairly lightweight travel OcBox. A heavier home model would go nice in someone's bedroom, but I'd like one that we could stick in our car or take on a plane. In that way, we could play with complete privacy in hotels, at work during lunchbreak, in the car (with the windows open Cheesy), at the kitchen table while family members do their own thing, etc.

 



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Spatolo
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« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2009, 11:01:00 pm »

So to start. I think the very first thing to do is to make your ocarina blowable through a tube.
I've searched for "ocabrass" to find the video but I didn't found it... would you please be so kind to link it here too?
Well, actually... I don't even remember if that video shows HOW to transform the ocarina into an ocabrass, or only the finished results. If it doesnt show how to make the transformation... please what's the best way to make the ocarina tube-blowable?
And, which kind of tube should one get?

Thank you so much Karl and buddies!


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